Redstate

It was always his job to sell the White House line. I'm guessing he went in their trying to talk them out of it, but if the rest of the team was all with the President on this, it really doesn't matter if Snow was given a seat at the policy table or not. He was surely outnumbered.

I hope nobody thinks less of him for taking on this job for this President, just because the President is pretty wrong on this one issue.

Run like Reagan!

How much of the immigration debate is class warfare based?

Fact is that our economy NEEDS the cheap labor that illegals supply. Tony is right - the economy is great. I know for a fact that 1000's of small business's would have to shut their doors if the illegals were magically gone over night.

It seems like this debate is about working class people on the anti side and entrepreneurs and hardworking capitalists on the other. Personally, I would like to see the border secured but don't want to see anything that is going to slam our economy.

we don't need cheap labor... 1000's of small business won't shut their doors overnight- that's obsurd.

Working-class people are against the immigration bill because the opposite is true in regard to your "fact is" statements. Working class members of our society want those jobs, will work those jobs, and its for that fact small businesses won't fold overnight.

Conservatives want: America Wants:
1. Secure the borders first, with a bill on its own!
2. Look at immigration reform, AFTER the borders are secure

talkshow host playing the class warfare card. For a conservative like Ms. Ingraham do that is just unprecedented. From her voice there is no doubt she meant it.

This is a party ripping at the seems moment.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Question (real, not rhetorical)

Suppose we secure the border and stop illegal immigration for the most part. How do you feel about a large-scale guest worker program, assuming we could effectively police it so that workers would, in fact, end up going home after working a couple of years here?

Here's why I ask. It seems that one big, arguably legitimate concern regarding illegal immigration -- and for that matter, legal immigration of unskilled workers -- is that they may end up costing our society (or particular localities) more than they contribute economically, mainly by consuming social services (education, healthcare, etc.). This question has been debated, among other places, between the Heritage Foundation and The Wall Street Journal, and I don't know who's right. There is also the arguable drawback of political influence of newcomers who settle here and other unwelcome sociological influence (e.g., an Anglo having to learn Spanish to get a job).

But if we can -- or let's say, if we could, hypothetically -- largely remove those factors via a large-scale guest worker program, we'd be left with just the issue of these guest workers possibly taking jobs from Americans, which is why I ask if you'd still oppose such a program simply for that reason. And I ask this because it seems to me that such a position would seem very similar to arguments against outsourcing and against free trade, which are really arguments against capitalism.

Under capitalism, if a business can produce goods and services at lower cost -- whether by lower labor cost, manufacturing automation, information technology, etc. -- doing so benefits our economy and our standard of living in the aggregate (no one would suggest banning a new type of machine that could automate production of some widgets just because it would put people out of work, although some tried when the cotton gin came out). Surely some workers suffer temporarily, and a smaller number suffer even long-term, but overall our nation benefits when businesses find ways to lower the cost of goods (without sacrificing quality).

So how would you feel about a massive guest worker program, assuming we first stopped illegal immigration and assuming we could enforce the provisions of the guest worker program (i.e., make sure they go home after a couple of years)?

I don't mind if the offspring of illegals stay. By the third generation, they are as American as any of us.

I don't have a lot of patience for people who expect the government to protect them because they never took advantage of all the opportunities of this country. If you grew up here and can't compete with an illiterate illegal who can't speak the language, that is your problem, not the maternal big government.

Of course, the working class is full of people who have planned on the government taking care of them. We used to call them democrats, now we call them republicans and democrats.

a disaster before the big influx now wasn't it?

GMAB. We survived without the illegals before and we can again. Will costs go up? Yeah, probably, or perhaps the margins will simply shrink. If you've been following the postings here, you will recall a couple of graphs that were posted several days ago that show how small of an impact illegal labor has on business.

Your contention is nothing more than a Bush/Democrat talking point and urban legend. And if you disagree, please provide some evidence of the negative economic impact that we might see. Others here have already provided evidence to the contrary.

Jobs Americans won't do = baloney

American teenagers and people just entering the workforce.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

In San Diego, at a small company where I sometimes consult, the owner made a political, patriotic decision to no longer hire illegals in their manufacturing process.

What happened?

After a couple months of running ads in the paper & online, talking with everyone they knew and contacting trade organizations, they simply could NOT find the workers they needed. They missed deadlines on a couple projects, the owner personally lost 10’s of thousands of dollars on projects they couldn’t complete and ultimately was faced with a decision. Stick to his no illegal policy; downsize the company (fire sales people, marketing people & design people) and turn down business OR go back to hiring illegals.

After pouring 14 years of sweat into the company, the owner decided to go back to hiring illegals. Can you blame him?

Most restaurants in southern California would not be able to open this weekend without illegals. Fact.

That's total crap.

Tony is a solid and committed conservative and doesn't deserve the insult of suggesting he is not.

Tony is not a policy maker. If you disagree with your boss are you going to resign? That is just silly. It's a job.

Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you. Washington Elected Elite

he didn't have to take it and you wonder how he can sell-out his principles for the sake of keeping it? Either he didn't have those principles to start with, or keeping his status as WHPS is more important to him. It's one or the other. Tony isn't stupid. He made a living criticizing the WH before he took the job and he certainly knows what this bill will do now that he is in it.

if the issue is that important to you. Been there done that! If you're at or near the policy level in government and that government's policies offend you, you can do one of three things: put your head down and count days to the election or your retirement, leak, thwart and sabotage - the Democrat way, or resign.

Any sense of honor or integrity will prevent you from doing the first two, and that only leaves one - admittedly a tough one.

In Vino Veritas

to take the job, and has just fought a battle with cancer. I would bet he is counting the days and lining up interviews and offers.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

He almost manages to make this steaming pile of garbage seem palatable.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

He may simply have bigger priorities than immigration. He doesn't have to agree with each and every position the administration takes to retain his position with honor and integrity. If he thinks his remaining in DC will help further other priorities of his (say, the GWOT), he is doing the right thing by staying, even if that means selling an immigration plan he doesn't believe in.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

if the issue is important enough to you. Sometimes you just endure it because you have some more important goal - or at least think you do.

In Vino Veritas

He is a moderate who has been placed as a "leader" of the conservative movement in order to steer the conservative movement towards moderate, aka "liberal," ends such as "comprehensive immigration reform."

I think the Bildebergers are the ones that set him up with that position. I hear he used to be a black helicopter pilot for the secret one world government.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman