The State of the Union Open Thread
By Erick Posted in Policy — Comments (170) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
It's that time. With just over an hour to go until we hear, for the first time during a SOTU, "Madam Speaker, the President of the United States," let's open up the open thread.
We'll be live blogging during the speech in this thread too.
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Dick Morris just said to Bill O'Reilly that the President could set the agenda for the nation if he got up during the SOTU tonight and said that everyone in the United States should have blonde hair.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/sotutp/
This should help focus the discussion on what we are supposed to be talking about.
I like being told, in advance, what to talk about. Saves me time thinking up my own ideas and that's a good thing.
used to pay women to let him suck their toes?
I know this is a family site, but I think that is my memory, and a bit more than won't make this post.
God save the Republic. If the ship of state gets blown up tonight, Al's our President.
So how about ratings of how well the President gave the SOU speech, not the content, but how well or not he did selling his program.
For a moment, you are the speech professor, grade Mr. Bush's presentation.
_______________________________
Another South Park Republican spouting off !
appointed Hoyer to help escort the Prez. She really wants to like him. Really.
You'd like to think the first female Speaker in her first SoTU would wear something that was a shade brighter than dead flesh.
Man. Thank GOD it's not 1941 - we'd have already lost.
The best part of the Bush legacy just walked in the room. Alito without his robe. Geez, I kinda miss the gold bands on the CJ's robe.
watch actually. probably the first SOTU of W's I would have skipped. not because of Bush fatigue, because I do not suffer from that in the least, but the stomach churning thought of seeing Pelosi sitting behind him. but I wanted to see what Justices turned out. and missed it at first so had to watch a bit more than I expected. Roberts, Kenendy, Breyer, and Alito if I saw correctly? Breyer always seems to come, I like that about him. Was hoping to see Stevens though, as I thought it might potentially signal it being his last to attend as a Supreme Court Justice. oh well, doesn't necessarily mean he won't retire.
Bush has sounded pretty good tonight, from the bits I've listened to.
stayed home. He would run our government if... oh, nevermind.
...while I realize that Katie Couric has never anchored a State of the Union address before, her announcing and commentary thus far sound as though she's never watched one before, either.
This ain't no Macy's Day Parade, Ms. CBSEVENINGNEWSANCHORWOMAN.
According to my wife because Cynthia McKinney is not there.
I love this part of the SOTU address. Everyone is smiling and hugging and gladhanding and kissing and hobnobbing like they just are all members of some big, happy family.
will be the second half of the speech. He'll be highlighting domestic issues first. That's pretty telling.
that Hastert had endorsed Romney. The chipping, alas, will have to continue.
They all want to shake his hand before knifing him in the back like Chuck Hagel.
And those, I've heard, were Kucinich's latest fifteen minutes.
She really is hot for a Congresswoman. Of course, she's generally attractive anyway.
OK folks, let's hear it: is the President using a touch of Grecian Formula or Just for Men this year to take a little of the grey away?
The President should give America's Mother-in-law her copy of the speech in Arabic, which we'd all be learning if Nancy's policies were law.
Nice on, Mr. Prez.
He seems like such a nice guy, but I think I have Bush fatigue. I know a lot of my Republican and Conservative brethren feel the same way.
If he'd just be willing to get his hands dirty and fight like hell instead of leaving the rest of us on the battlefield while he tosses Rummy under a train, I think I wouldn't be so tired.
His timing stinks -- always playing defense.
"...and the wisdom to face them together." was delivered a little like the Serenity Prayer, I have to note.
When he says we need more enterprise, not more government, the Dems don't clap. I wish we could drop the cussing rule for this thread.
William Jefferson bolted for the back door!
But only Newt Gingrich did it.
Would have been nice not to have such a large one (or one at all) to begin with, nice gesture though.
Hillary's not clapping at the President's budget progress and his plan to eliminate the deficit in 5 years. I guess she doesn't agree with the goal.
anyone else think Hillary sat next to Sen. Eyebrow (or made him sit next to her) from the swing state of Pennsylvania with a view to 08? or is that too cynical? and who's the poor pasty guy that got stuck with the seat next to Senator I Served in Vietnam?
we don't have to raise taxes to balance the budget. That says a lot.
Everybody applauds
No New taxes the dems shut up and sit down
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
Everybody applauds
No New taxes the dems shut up and sit down
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
Or does he seem to be whispering? Talking softly? Is that Texan for "reconciliation"?
an hour after the democratic response, you'll be able to search the audio of both the SOTU and the democratic response here:
Thomas is going to get mad. My wife too.
"Increasing the funding to help give these children ..." And the first ovation is his mention of "health care for all." Government has the obligation...but no clapping from Nancy on the idea of private insurance.
On privatization of anything. No clapping. No clapping. Especially not on medical liability reform. She looks like she's sucking a piece of gristle out of her cheek. Her smile has disappeared.
It's too damned complicated to explain in this speech. POTUS better get his POTUS behind in the field and try to explain this initiative, which I support.
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
"medical liability reform." Does this mean she is supporting Edwards?
yikes, I'm done. Federal funds, HHS, Congress, Grants, Choices, private health insurance. Someone who did well on the SAT's explain how the first five relate to the last. Seems to me that the first five only put the sixth that much furthur out of reach and screw everyone else who currently has insurance. How this plan is put down soon, going to have to give it a good study.
A special note to Jihadists everywhere:
While agreeing with almost nothing she has ever said or done, noticing Speaker Pelosi sitting prominently over the Presidents left shoulder and recognizing the peaceful ascension to that position (no severed heads) should remind us all that we – all Americans – are better than them
- - - - - - - - - - -
"Everybody has an agenda. Except for me." - Michael Crichton, State of Fear.
I just figured I'd do that for all of you who don't like the immigration stuff.
BTW, did I hear him right? He wants to let in anybody who wants to work and focus on the drug dealers?
You might as well be honest about it.
But if you close the damned border, I can support the Pence plan.
But what about domestic oil? We've got a shnikey pond of it under us.
but not nearly as much as the present enemy is. The question is when the GOP will make this a national security issue and pound the dems with it and their defeatist unpatriotic cornucopia of statements and votes!!
Mike Gamecock DeVine @
The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Or does Pelosi look like she's got a wad of chew in that mouth? Where's the Speaker's Spitoon?
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
on hemp, man. Groovy, etc,
come on Mr. President. Gas is good.
At least you've got a domestic oil production initiative.
Is nothing without the subsidies, the recent spikes in corn and nat gas are resulting in tight to negative margins. Same with biodiesel using soy oil, without subsidies its a non starter.
Producing 25 billion gal will need 9.4 billion bushels of corn.
2004 US corn production = 10.1 billion bushels.
2005 US corn production = 11.8 billion bushels.
I guess there is enough corn, but we will be eating a lot less meat in future. Perhaps the President plans to promote vegetarianism?
25 billion gallons = 1.6 million bbl/day of ethanol.
1 gallon of ethanol produces 62% as much heat as one gallon of gasoline.
So 1.6 million bbl/day ethanol = 0.99 million bbl/day of gasoline. This would reduce gasoline demand by 11% and oil demand by 5%.
The bottom line is that it doesn't save much oil, and will drive up the price of both car fuel and food, particularly meat.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @
The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Oh well buy ADM. Short GM and FORD
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
But are we really going to do that? Seems like every time we do, we wind up slapping them instead of killing them.
The man in the Army Dress Uniform - Gen. Peter Schoomaker - is one BAMF. That is all.
keep staring at the camera like this is about her or am I delusional?
For some reason I can’t help but giggle a little to myself whenever I see Mrs. Clinton wearing s pearl (or pearl-like) necklace.
(Gee, it seems like nine years since I’ve seen her in a nice blue dress or Mr. Clinton smoking a cigar in public.)
- - - - - - - - -
"Everybody has an agenda. Except for me." - Michael Crichton, State of Fear.
Who knew? Certainly not the Democrats.
Mr. President, when you say we're at "war," you don't really mean "war" do you? I mean, seriously? We're at war?
Coulda fooled me too. I thought we were just helping Iraq democratize.
It's about time that word got used a lot more.
Pelosi, Reid and Friends? Or was it just standard jihadist blather?
___________________
If "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of "progress"...
Senior Writer
surprised THAT didn't get a standing O from the Dems
That Hezbollah is second only to Al-Qaeda in taking American lives.
They are not a political party, they are the enemy.
C'mon Mr. President. Don't wimp out.
I'm kind of tired of the "terrorists hate free people" speel. Can't we just say "terrorists must be killed by any and all means" and get on with it?
Fides non in bonus intentions , tamen in bonus factum
For more common sense conservatism, visit the Show Me Conservatism blog.
McCain? Tancredo? Both shown for longer than 5 seconds with eyes shut.
oh, he was talking about Afghanistan
Bush started out laying traps left and right. He's hitting all the right points (although I don't agree with all points of the health care proposal as laid out so far).
Fides non in bonus intentions , tamen in bonus factum
For more common sense conservatism, visit the Show Me Conservatism blog.
"Yeah, so what?" look at Bush's recapitulation of the voting in the past two years speaks volumes. Why isn't he just doing a j**k(ff gesture?
Most are in their seats.
To say where we are in Iraq is not where we wanted to go. And yes, I agree we must win in Iraq.
I'll go along with this plan.
WOW, that got nothing from the dems, victory who needs it. Well unless you mean electoral victory then they are for it.
Good for them! It's about time they got onboard.
Fides non in bonus intentions , tamen in bonus factum
For more common sense conservatism, visit the Show Me Conservatism blog.
I'll go for it. And I'll go for more US troops without a timetable to get out. But by God I want a fight. None of this kumbaya hand holding the Iraqis b**s***.
Is that his version of Carthage Delenda Est?
Here comes the big clap/no clap moment of the night. Let's see what happens at the end of this graf.
-----------------------
Develop alternatives to existing policies and keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes the politically inevitable. Milton Friedman
understand that withdrawal means defeat and chaos, Mr. President. I know you have to be concilatory, but for Pete's sake, call a spade a spade.
Fides non in bonus intentions , tamen in bonus factum
For more common sense conservatism, visit the Show Me Conservatism blog.
That about says it.
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
Watching the Democrats, that they don't really want to win. They just want to quit and come home.
Oh if life were just that simple.
Not nearly as hot (or smart) as Rep. Blackburn.
Fides non in bonus intentions , tamen in bonus factum
For more common sense conservatism, visit the Show Me Conservatism blog.
Just don't make us pay for them or give them weapons or anything.
Ah, such is the Democrat/Hagel strategy.
to keep America safe and safer. Those who've purchased her career would not allow for it.
Fides non in bonus intentions , tamen in bonus factum
For more common sense conservatism, visit the Show Me Conservatism blog.
Support the troops they stand, but he mentions victory and its sitting on hands.
We need more troops. Especially since we're going to war with Syria, Iran, North Korea, and China next week.
That more than half of the Democrats want Iran to have nuclear weapons.
The U.N. won't allow Iran to acquire nukes? That's news to me.
Fides non in bonus intentions , tamen in bonus factum
For more common sense conservatism, visit the Show Me Conservatism blog.
THANK YOU MISTER PRESIDENT FOR MENTIONING THE CAUSE OF FREEDOM IN CUBA.
That right there just made this whole speech worthwhile. I wish they had a shot of Chris Dodd when he said that.
Nothing like a country where there is no national interest, only humanitarian ones, to get the Dems on their feet.
Fides non in bonus intentions , tamen in bonus factum
For more common sense conservatism, visit the Show Me Conservatism blog.
About saving "the people of Darfur." But Victory in Iraq and saving the American mission there...huge yawns from Donks.
Oh man just give the people being attacked guns and let them defend themselves.
There we go the fith freedom the right to keep and bear arms
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
That's nice too.
Let it never be said that the President does not believe in freedom.
He's got almost a childlike naiveté regarding freedom that is both endearing and inspiring for those who care about such things, i.e. most people other than lefties.
Almost reach down and shake the President's hand from where he's standing. Did Laura even stand up? Oh, yeah, she did.
I liked that the President honored Wesley Autrey. What Autrey did was really a selfless, heroic act.
...then what's the point?
And, yes, being singled out as an example of what an American should be by the President of the United States should be up there. :)
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.
And the Kossacks Crudded him because he actually felt glad to be there and be recognized for his act of heroism from a Republican President. That means that Wesley Autrey is now officially an "Uncle Tom" according to the Kossacks.
How about we send Ethiopia a few bucks, they did a fine job in Somolia with no crap from the UN or the left.
The BBC just released another one of those "the rest of the world hates America" polls. It was interesting that of the countries polled, Kenya and Nigeria had the highest pro US feelings. Also, Christianity is growing in Africa more than anywhere else.
unlike Old Europe, they have faith in God and are willing to fight for their societies and culture.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @
The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Mike Gamecock DeVine @
The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Geez, I love our Democrat Congress. It's a worthwhile cause, but c'mon.
Fides non in bonus intentions , tamen in bonus factum
For more common sense conservatism, visit the Show Me Conservatism blog.
Those are great life stories for great people.
For those with children out there enough with Rock stars, sports stars and actors, men like that soldier and firefighters and police officers are true hero's.
that our Congress cheers harder for them than for victory in war.
Fides non in bonus intentions , tamen in bonus factum
For more common sense conservatism, visit the Show Me Conservatism blog.
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
Overall much better than I was expecting, I set a pretty low bar earlier in the day.
I don't agree with the health care proposal, but he hit the jabs where needed, and the shots of the Dem applause vs. the Republican applause on Iraq says a world about where their priorities are.
Fides non in bonus intentions , tamen in bonus factum
For more common sense conservatism, visit the Show Me Conservatism blog.
I am just wondering how the other networks picked their reaction shots.
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
can both really go screw. Did Jesse really just say why are you still president?
didn't mind when the COngressional Dems sat on their hands; it was partisan and amusing. Now, though, it leaves me stick. The stakes are just too high, and they really don't get it.
Enjoying Fox's after-speech coverage. It's really fantastic -- just letting the camera follow the President back up the aisle with all the extemporaneous comments. Well done, Fox!
Whether the other networks cut away from it. Brit Hume and FOX just let it play out rather than jumping in with their commentary.
Corporate CEO's make 400 times the average workers pay. SERIOUSLY! Earth to Jim Webb, BUY A CALCULATOR. If the average worker makes 40 k a year that means the average CEO makes $16 million. On a side note what a corporate CEO makes in NONE OF CONGRESS'S BUSINESS!!!! This is an insult to the shareholders in that congress is trying to tell them they are too stupid to see they are paying their CEO too much, if they have a problem its their duty to fix it, NOT the US Congress.
I have no idea whether those numbers are accurate, but that's really immaterial to the question itself. and besides being stupid, he's also an ass.
Some quick google searching and some math backs up his numbers.
Average Wage is ~$17
Coverted to a Salary based on a 40 hour work week: $35,360
That means that 400 times that would be: $14,144,000
Average CEO salary in 2005 (AFLCIO) for S&P 500 companies: $13,510,000.
So, yes he's a bit high based on my math but he's not completely off the wall. In fact this write-up @ money.cnn cites the number as even higher. So I'd say his figure is a fair number overall.
you want to take in to account the other couple million businesses ?
I'd very much like to make 400 times what my employees do.
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
They'll never stop doing this. In fact, because they'll never stop doing this, it's one of the reasons I've been upset about certain executive pay extravagances: because when you own a small business, your employees all read those stastics and think that the "boss" is making 400 or 1000 or 2000 times as much as they are. These extreme numbers, which as far as I am concerned are a regular fact of Donk rhetoric, wind up hurting small business owners.
If youre the boss you are a fatcat not a guy with his rear on the line
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
That's all.
I suppose a more accurate way to do it would be to take each CEO and then the number of employees under them and compare the average differences and then do that across the board. Then you'd reach the clear difference. But, I don't have that kind of time or all the required data.
That said the S&P 500 does employ an awful lot of people so it's a relatively reasonable cross section.
Admittly smaller businesses don't have that kind of a gap.
for the actions of 100k people you make more than someone handling 10
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
What's the list of the 500 best places to work in the U.S.? I bet most of them are on the Fortune 500 list too.
But in Webb's world we'd be better off economically if the employees of those companies went and worked somewhere else. No more company subsidized health care, fitness center, three weeks vacation a year and day care buy hey we'd be closer to his party's Marxist egalitarianism. Those cruel CEOs wouldn't have companies to make millions on.
They get fired an awful lot. All they have to do is miss two quarters in a row and in many cases they'll get shown the door. This isn't a sinecure that you can just keep as long as you want, like most jobs.
The AFLCIO is pretty near to the last authority I'd accept on the question of the actual average salary made by America's top 500 CEOs. Most of the number is deferred compensation, by the way, not cash. That also deceives a lot of people.
The real problem with CEO comp (and with bizarre outcomes like golden parachutes for people that have been terminated) is on the corporate governance side. You'll never hear about this in the MSM, but the recent Home Depot fiasco was a real wakeup call to boards everywhere. They're trending in the direction of greater independence from management (and have been ever since Enron) anyway. If you're paying attention, you'll see a lot of this nonsense start to go away as people write more disciplined contracts with their CEOs. Of course this won't stop morons like Jim Webb from talking out of their backsides on the issue.
I've had to fire my share of CEOs. A guy who is smart enough for you to want him in that job in the first place is more than smart enough to demand a contract that will protect him in case things don't work out. CEOs are like major-league pitchers in that there is an exceedingly small number of people who have the requisite skills, the temperament, and the luck to have been in prior situations where they could show great successes. That explains the outsize salaries: it's just normal supply and demand pressure on a very scarce resource. CEOs are not like pitchers in that they don't usually bounce around from one job to another. Get fired, and you often spend the rest of your life doing charities and teaching in some B-school.
And someone else made the absolutely correct point that the top 500 public companies are not the norm for senior-exec compensation. In the vast majority of companies that are large enough to have professional management, you'll find that the spread between the top man or woman and the average is no more than it is in places like Japan or Europe. (Which understates the case, because in other countries, business leaders are de facto aristocrats on top of being well-paid, which is not true here.)
If you pick the top executive salaries and perk packages and compare them to the average wage in the country you'll find that his number is pretty close. Of course, what he didn't mention is that unless I'm incorrect it was even more extreme under the Clinton Administration. I remember reading Mort Drucker in Wired Magazine talking about ratios like 1000/1 or 2000/1.
whats your ratio and how would you feel about congress chining in on how you do things ?
Veritas magna est et praevalet.
Yes, and my Dad for years ran a data-processing consultancy in New Jersey where we employed between 30-60 people on two shifts. It was very difficult. Our employees would read numbers like that and think we were driving away to the bank with 44-foot trailer trucks stuffed with money. In reality, 99% of the time we were just keeping our heads above water. My Dad drove a Chevy Chevette Diesel to work in the morning, not a Cadillac Escalade. But that didn't matter -- the assumption was that we were secretly socking it away somewhere.
In the best of times, the ratio was more like 5:1. In the worst of times, the ratio swung exactly the other direction. We had several Christmases where our employees were going and shopping like crazy and we were basically buying nothing. As a small business owner in the business my father was in, if you have a single major equipment failure or one of your key customers defaults on receivables, you're in very, very serious trouble.
It upsets me when the Donks conflate things like "net worth" and "peak salary" with their usual class-warfare meme. Sure, my father's equipment and the building were worth a few million dollars, so our "net worth" was probably 5 or 10x that of our employees. But all of that equipment is almost worthless if you have a single bad year, and believe me, the bank will take it away.
I've been there with my father wondering how we were going to meet payroll and pay the electric bills. It's agony.
That my father was working between 12 and 16 hours a day as the President of the company while we lived there. The Democrats throw out these huge numbers and people read them in the New York Times and USA Today and what they do when they disgruntled is think: "This guy is making millions on my sweat. I'm going to sue." We had one woman in particular who tried to do just that. She was convinced that we had a money tree in the backyard and when we fired her for gross incompetence she threatened us with a discrimination lawsuit. Actually that happened more than once. And guess who pays the lawyer fees to defend yourself?
Except for Hunter and another 65 or so rock solid on the war GOP house members, Pace and other military present, Joe Lieberman, Sessions, Kyle, McConnell and a few other rock solid GOP senators, the First and second ladies, Mutombo, and unknown others, the audience Bush spoke to were mostly despicable political hacks that I spit on.
Democratic Party in the precess of abandoning the troops, Iraqi allies and your own self respect, judgment, and yes, patriotism, I spit on you.
I spit on you.
Good night.
Any gratuitous criticism of Bush, given the craven display of the Dems on the war, is ill-timed.
Compared to the Dems, Bush is a d Giant that deserves our rock solid support just now.
The man is standing up to the enemy. Let's stand with and for him and the troops instead of our own egos and the pink pleasure of one day being able to say i told you so (like McCain).
Let's be better than that at Redstate.
Gamecock will. How many will join me in vanity control and in eschewing that misplaced pride that Reagan spoke of in the Evil Empire speech to simply declare ourselves above it all and declare a pox on both houses and get all smug in our dreams of perfection.
Not now.
Stand with The President. We are at war.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @
The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I have lost count of the number of times Bush has given what I considered a pretty good speech on something, packed with things that conservatives could carry forward and fight for, only to come to Redstate, or NRO and find a whole lot of sniping that this bit or that bit wasn't great, or that the delivery was off or complaints that he mentioned something conservatives don't like but which everyone knew he was for when he first ran for the nomination (NCLB, Immigration etc).
I know this White House has been pretty lousy at defending its agenda. But given that the conservative side of the blogosphere practically gave up running interference with the MSM narrative the day Ohio's electoral votes were certified, they don't deserve all the blame.
The Democrats choices on where to applaud and where not to (not raise taxes, victory in Iraq) followed by Jim Webb's isolationist snake oil show why we should be supporting GWB, 'warts and all': a weak President invites disaster at the hands of this crew.
There was a reason he was re-elected. You may have forgotten it now, but I promise you, you'll miss him when he's gone.
who sent Jim Webb to the US Senate, you got exactly what you deserve.
- For those who stuck by Sen. George Allen, but are now stuck with Sen. Webb-
- "I feel your pain."
***
“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
Allen got screwed by the MSM and even the Repubs who abandoned him. I have seen Allen in action, and he is better than ANY of our present 08 wannabes. Allen is not so much a politician as he is a critical thinker and believer. I remember when he supported renewing the "assault weapons ban" like the senior senator John Warner. Then, when people explained to him it would help no one, he changed his mind. That is the result of believing in reality, and freedom. Those that elected Webb only make themselves look bad. I do not think Allen is done, he deserves more than he got because he is a great man and a leader.
when he said "Spend the people's money wisely". Let's keep an eye on this guy when it comes to spending. Republicans have already lost the mantle of "party of fiscal responsibility" in the eyes of the voters. It won't be enough to blame runaway spending on the Democrats. Republicans need to lead on this issue. I for one am not happy with the Republicans spending habits since Newt left Congress.
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.
-Attributed to Yogi Berra
will be when she reviews the tape of the SOTU. Each time the camera panned her way, right there was Obama... sitting smack-dab in front of her.
***
“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
My suggestion is to get Tony Snow to run for Mark Warner's seat in the next election. Conservative and an excellant speaker.
My wife would shoot me if I missed the birth of our child to try out for American Idol.