That'll show 'em.
How *DARE* they get free advertising in Nevada?
By Moe Lane Posted in Democrats — Comments (126) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
...yeah, put it that way and it sounds not quite as impressive, huh? From the Politico:
Nevada Dems Nix Fox Debate
By: Ryan GrimThe Nevada State Democratic Party is pulling out of a controversial presidential debate scheduled for Aug. 14 in Reno and co-hosted by Fox News, according to a letter released late Friday from state party chairman Tom Collins and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev).
The letter said Nevada Democrats had entered into the agreement with Fox, despite strong opposition from Democratic activist groups such as MoveOn.org, as a way of finding "new ways to talk to new people."
Read on for the official excuse and more head-shaking.
The official excuse is that they're bailing out of the debate in response to this:
"And it is true that Barack Obama is on the move. I don't know if it's true that President Bush called Musharraf and said, 'Why can't we catch this guy?" Ailes said at a Radio & Television News Directors Association Foundation event in Washington on Thursday, according to a transcipt provided by Fox.
...which sounds more like a joke against Bush, frankly. Then again, they would have picked some excuse, and this is as good as any other. The netroots require a win - some win, any win - and, seeing as the Democrats have no intention of defunding the war, this will have to do. It's safely meaningless in the short term, and God knows that Fox News will be an, ah, more enduring devil figure to the progressive base than even the current President can hope to be.
What makes this downright hysterical, though, is that the event has apparently been just up and cancelled. This means that Moveon.org is bragging right now about how it managed to keep what would have been a multihour advertisement for the Democratic Party from being broadcast for free. In a State that just barely trended GOP in the '04 Presidential election, no less! This is... impressive. Personally, I don't dare dream of being this much of a hindrance to the Democrats.
To sum up, then: on behalf of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy I'd like to thank the Democratic Party for doing what it can to keep Nevada in the GOP column for '08. I'm also deeply appreciative of your efforts to ensure the survival of the 'not reflexively critical of America' equals 'right-wing' meme.
I'd offer to show some consideration in return, except that frankly I see no real reason why I should.
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That'll show 'em. 126 Comments (0 topical, 126 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
They would like nothing better then a total monopoly of information, a sidestep from the approved line is intolerable.
This debate is arranged by their own party and still they can't stomach it. Get out the swastikas and stop faking it kids.
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville
Been visiting the ol' cossacks and let me tell you, they are calling for an entire democrat boycott on Fox. They are calling for ZERO interviews and even going so far as to want them banned from the democratic convention! Of course no one said a peep that Maxine Waters was on there this morning. They are acting like it didn't happen. There are a few trying to tell them that all they are doing is pissing off the dems that are in charge but they simply will not listen. Did they not visit youtube and notice that even Obay is calling them idiot liberals?
And as for the poster who wanted to know if opposing views were allowed on here...they are NOT on the other place. If you stray from the lock step mentality then they "troll" rate you and hide your comments. Musnt let anyone see an opposing view over there...wonder why that is? It's because they are totally into censorship of opposing ideas and views.
all over again. In that case, they mobilized their vast orc army to allow one liberal Democrat to win a primary victory over another liberal Democrat in a Blue State, which other liberal Democrat then got reelected in a landslide as a liberal Independent. All it cost them was a few million of someone else's wife's dollars.
In this case, they've thrown a tantrum and cancelled a TV show which would have exposed their message, such as it is, to the only people who don't normally hear it. Now they'll be preaching to the choir, the six people who still watch CNN or BSNBC. Oh well, their primary.
[Shrugs]
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See the Academy
Hall of Famer namesake Steve Young wrote on the Huffington Puffington blog:
Ailes’ joke is receiving some of the same media criticism that hit Kerry [after he referred to U.S. soldiers as too stupid and lazy to get out of battle]. But Ailes was not putting down Obama. Reading the context of the joke, it is obvious that Ailes was only pointing out just how unbelievably dumb this president is; that he can’t even tell the difference between Obama and bin Laden.
Well, this debate would have been aired nationally on the lowly FOX News Channel. Here are Thursday's ratings, and FNC had nearly three times the prime time viewers as the second place network, CNN. FNC had more viewers than CNN, no. 3 Headline News, and no. 4 MSNBC combined. This means that if the debate were sponsored by CNN, HLN, and MSNBC, it might have fewer national viewers than would have watched it on FNC.
And if you're curious about the chair of the Nevada Dems, Tom Collins, here is the recipe. -hic-
Had the Trojans refused that nice horsey, these comments might be an echo of the Greeks' subsequent conversations.
Sorry - the Democrats made the right call on this one. Until the party is completely broke, good - or at least neutral - publicity will be a wiser choice than free negative publicity.
When one of the more restrained libs comes in claiming the press isn't biased against republicans.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
The Dems wisely chose not to get run out of Reno clutching their three card monte table and wearing their nutroots clown suit.
negative publicity to come out of this whole sorry affair is for the Democrats. Not only have they exposed themselves as anti American, they have told every single American that the only way to know the truth is to watch Fox. Plus, the message has been so loud that millions of Americans who never realized it before, now are aware that Fox news is the one to watch. I look for their ratings to increase.
But I expect Fox to get people tuning in to see what the fuss is about.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I knew there was some reason that none of the news stories (that I saw) quoted Roger Ailes directly. This supposed "outrage" was nothing more than a typical Leno or Letterman joke about George Bush and his language problems. All the latenight comedians have a ton of jokes just like that.
example: "Did you hear about this? According to a recent poll, three out of five Americans believe George W. Bush should be impeached. And when he heard that, the president said, 'Cool, I love peaches.'" — David Letterman
So that you could find that most, if not all, of those stories quoted Roger Ailes' comments about Obama/Osama.
Google News Search: "And it is true that Barack Obama is on the move" Ailes
Results 1 - 4 of 4 for And-it-is-true-that-Barack-Obama-is-on-the. (0.00 seconds) Sorted by relevance
Is It Democrat's Hypocrisy or Is It They Just Don't Get Ailes Joke?
Huffington Post, NY - 14 hours ago
Search: "And it is true that Barack Obama is on the move. I don't know if it's true that President Bush called Musharraf and said, 'Why can't we catch this guy? ...Fred Thompson Urged to Make '08 Run
Wyoming News, WY - 19 hours ago
"And it is true that Barack Obama is on the move. I don't know if it's true that President Bush called Musharraf and said, 'Why can't we catch this guy? ...Fox News Chief: Obama = Osama
Huffington Post, NY - Mar 9, 2007
And it is true that Barack Obama is on the move. I don't know if it's true that President Bush called Musharraf and said, 'Why can't we catch this guy? ...mediabistro.com RTNDF 1st Amendment Awards: Transcript Of Roger Ailes' Acceptance ...
mediabistro.com, NY - Mar 8, 2007
And it is true that Barack Obama is on the move. I don't know if it's true that President Bush called Musharraf and said, 'Why can't we catch this guy?' ...In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 4 already displayed.
If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included.
Please enlighten me and show me the context, which you seem to ignore too. Show me anything that Ailes said before or after the quote in question, that clarifies that the joke might have not been against Obama, but directed towards Bush.
Some comments, such as Coulter's, for example, don't need context in order to be alarming. I'm sure Coulter said many things prior to and after her "fa**ot" sentence. But nobody is asking to read her whole transcript, because her comment was offensive.
From:
RTNDF 1st Amendment Awards: Transcript Of Roger Ailes' Acceptance Speech
mediabistro.com's Daily TVNewser, Thursday, Mar 08
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3djyjy
EXCERPT:
(Roger Ailes speaking)
John Seigenthaler and I are the same age. Look at how he let himself go.
[Laughter]
It is true that I said Britney Spears looked great at the Academy Awards. and I later found out it was Jack Nicholson.
[Laughter/ooohs]
It is true that just in the last two weeks Hillary Clinton has had over 200 phone calls telling her in order to win the presidency she must stay on the road for the next two years. It is not true they were all from Bill.
[Laughter]
And it is true that Barack Obama is on the move. I don't know if it's true that President Bush called Musharraf and said, 'Why can't we catch this guy?'
[Laughter]
Look, it's a total cop-op on the part of the Nevada Dems to cite Ailes' Obama joke as their reason for pulling out of the debate with FOX. On the other hand, FOX did run a groundless story about Obama attending an Islamic school in Indonesia. So even though Ailes' joke was really a dig a Bush--not Obama--this episode squares with narrative that FOX is out to get Obama, fair or not. I suggest that we all refrain from the Obama/Osama/Hussein line of comedy. It's not funny anymore and quite childish.
That is such a true comment! If they "embrace" the nutroots so wholeheartedly, then why not say that the pressure from them is why they cancelled the debate?
...was ready to lead this country forward in our fight against bloodthirsty terrorists, I find out that the Dems run away from a fight with Fox News like a bunch of Nancy boys.
Wow, am I disillusioned!
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"We can all do our part to save the planet by dying." - R.E. Finch
Nancy boys....we don't have to sink to their level..
" in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."
Abe Lincoln
what would the public remember the most from that night?
On-one-hand, the candidates would get free airtime to make snide remarks about each other and unanimously proclaim that BushLied.™ That could be considered...positive...maybe?
On-the-other-hand, the debate may be overshadowed by the "Nutroots on Display" outside of the venue because: "They're stomping-mad, and they just won't be ignored any more."
The later would surely be a "rating's bonanza" for FOXNews, which in addition to exposing the lunatic left to the public, would also qualify as one of the dem's worst nightmares.
***
“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
CNN or MSNBC?
the debate may be overshadowed by the "Nutroots on Display" outside of the venue because: "They're stomping-mad, and they just won't be ignored any more."
The later would surely be a "rating's bonanza" for FOXNews,
But, from what we all know, Fox News doesn't need a ratings boost. CNN and/or MSNBC do, though.
Perhaps this is a stealth effort by the nutroots to help out one of "their" networks?
I agree with rdbwiggins. The nutroots in Vegas, fueled by liquor and that dreamy buffet at the Bellagio, will be at their barking maddest. It'll be a Westminster Dog Show for Kooks.
Come to think of it, we have the makings of a Real Genius moment here. (Val Kilmer to the nerds: "Think about it---this might the only time in your lives that you have a chance to have sex!")
The KosKidz will have convinced themselves that their biting wit, worldly demeanors,"Loose Change" T-shirts and Clip-on Spock Ears will be just the thing to make the showgirls at Bally's and the Flamingo swoon over them. And, as the Kidz will expect those showgirls will tune in to see the debate, they'll be at their finest nutroots form. Think of it as a mating dance for dorks.
Now, that will make for good television! I'll watch MSNBC for one night, just to see that.
See! This is all a master plan by Markos and Jane Hamster, to boost liberal-friendly TV network ratings.
(Turn SARCASM switch to "Off" position: Check!)
"Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?" (Macaulay)
I'll have to give that some thought. It'd be nice to have a Nutroots-Behavior-Model™ to aid in the process. Something based along the same lines as the data collection, modeling techniques and algorithms used by the Global-Warming-Alarmists,™ and one that is fully capable of forecasting Nutroots-Behavioral-Change™ well into the future.
And to think, I was convinced that Reid et al. were just cowards. Afraid of FOXNews, and afraid of the Nutroots.
***
“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
The Democrats are depriving no one by refusing to debate. The whole thing is a contest to see who can come up with the best anti-Bush soundbyte. Sometime after the 2008 elections, Democrats will realize that they lost because they ran against an administration that was not running for re-election.
By the way, Democrats have not won an open election since 1960. Probably because they haven't proposed any ideas to reduce taxes or increase national security since 1960.
as Juan Williams, Mara Liasson and Alan Colmes. Way to go.
it would have been cool if FOX had put some of their more moderate-to-liberal personalities out there for the debate. I always thought Mr. Colmes would be an ideal debate moderator. (Whereas a Hannity probably couldn't contain himself during vague responses to questions)
But I guess we'll never know now, will we. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They better hope CNN steps up.
Nothing quite as disheartening in the political process as watching the parties pandering to the extremists for the primaries. It's just insulting to the intellect.
At this point, I'm thinking the Dems are preparing for a repeat of the Mondale/Ferraro fiasco. Hope the Repubs can put forth someone worthy this time.
for 2 minutes and see if this is positive or negative for the democrats.
I think we'd all agree that Fox reports in a way which is more beneficial for Republicans than most of the other large TV outlets. So Fox's view of the debate was likely to be tougher on the dems -- but the Nevada Democrats were willing (at first) to give it a try and see if the free publicity would balance against the likely tough press. Others in the left wing thought that was a crazy idea - that Fox would never be fair and balanced to Hillary et al.
Now they've quit the debate but been able to spin it as Fox news who caused the problem, not their own left-wing-nuts who made them pull out. It's a pretty weak excuse for dropping out, but blaming the media is always popular (on both sides) and this one kind of works to push the blame from the complaining activist base to the media - in the form of Fox.
I think the democrats end up looking no better or worse, but Fox looks to be weakened. And if the democratic candidates keep moving this direction then Fox will be further marginalized.
That is the silliest thing I've heard in a while.
How, exactly, does this weaken Fox?
It makes it look like the Democrats can't risk appearing on a network that doesn't lick their sandals and get them latte.
Nobody but bloggers cares about this, and we all get it.
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See the Academy
because some intolerant leftists can't have the game loaded their way, as they have on most other news outlets but are too crazy to notice.
The story is that we're dealing with a potentially explosive portion of our population, living in a threatened dream world where one news outlet, one, is a danger to the country and to their paranoid selves.
The Democrats can't hurt Fox, they have been trying for years and Fox has only grown. They might even hurt themselves more with the perception of fear and unwillingness to deal with the fact of an alternative network and the lack of spoon fed soft balls. Which is so true !
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville
It has 3 times the ratings of CNN and has sows that outdraw the competition combined.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Thanks. That should shows
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I didn't realize I'd have to look that fat up the thread.
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See the Academy
of the late-night "Up to the Minute" news show on CBS and compare that spin to Fox or any other news service. It's really been glaring in recent weeks.
Kinda pointless use a channel like Fox when your a liberal.
Because if so, I can see why moveon.org cancelled it. They want him left alone and unsullied without a chance of his painting himself into a corner. In fact, I've heard Obama used this "Fox" Faux Pas as an excuse to say Fox is clearly part of the VRWC, and therefore he will not appear on O'Reilly or any other Fox show.
I think... they're going to try to get him elected without his ever having to answer a question from an opposition standpoint or engage in a debate!
wasn't a problem then it is not a problem now. FOX will not be hurt by this and the "metrosexual" Edwards will look more the fool everytime he or one of his fellow demo idiots say we should talk to Iran or Syria because people will think to themselves you won't even talk to FOX (their enemy) so you are a hypocrite and a wuss. This childlike attitude of Democrats is not very Presidential and is exactly why none of those people will win. Tanking to the left is not the way to win in the general and believe that anything and everything they are doing right now will be used against them in the general election.
Peace through superior fire power:)
Especially the part about not even talking to Fox.
_______________________
Win their hearts and minds. If that doesn't work, grab them by the ba**s and their hearts and minds will follow. - SF Mantra
in R.Aisles comments.
In my view the democrats should not be debating on the FAUX News for the Other reasons. Just imagine the members of Israeli parlament debating on Iranian TV. Same thing. Both of those establishments(FAUX and Iranian TV) are just a propaganda networks for hate and division.
sl
Seriously? You really equate Fox News with state run television? Is it REALLY so hard for you to heard BOTH sides of a story?
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
with the correction, that it is not the state run TV network
of course, but the network run by the one party in our case, and network working tirelessly to advance one-sided agenda/propaganda no matter how wrong or distorted that could be...
Hateful, divisive network/party.
sl
Its employee political contributions trend overwhelmingly democratic.
So I guess you may be right.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
make up girls and camera men are the democrats at FOX news ?
I would have been too , working together with the hateful lying personalities ,like Hannity, Hume et al.
sl
In most states.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
___________________________________________________________
Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
I went back and watched Friday's H & C and O'Reilly (thank you once again Mr. Tivo), and watched with an eye toward discerning whether comments made (by both hosts and guests), and stories covered, were more favorable to Democrats or Republicans. Favorable being defined for my purposes as either pro one side, or critical of the other.
On O'Reilly, about 75% of the stories were neutral. There's no bias demonstrated in "New evidence in Anna Nicole Smith's Death" or "Murder and Russia".
Of the stories that had political implications (e.g."New Campaign-related items"& "Stopping Illegals") about 75% of the comments were critical of the right, and 25% of the left. When Bill commented on the new executive hirings at CBS, he prefaced it by saying he had a personal dislike and bias in the matter, so turn the channel if you were looking for him to be fair and balanced on this issue, because he didn't see how he could keep his bias out of his opinions. Even then, he didn't criticize the left, he just said that the MSM clearly had a major and growing left-wing bias.
On H & C, about 30% of the show was on 'neutral' topics (e.g. accusations by a Catholic Priest that Hannity was a traitor to his faith for advocating birth control over abortion - - neither was acceptable to him). Of the 70% remaining, criticism was split almost exactly 50/50, with some of the arguments getting pretty heated and a fair amount shouting going back and forth on both sides. Colmes generally moderated this show (therefore starting segemnts with the Democratic perspective), with Hannity providing counter-point later in the argument. It's often the other way around, but not on Friday. Overall, given that Colmes spent more time expounding the left viewpoint, I'd give that particular show a 51%/49% bias in favor of Democrats.
So from this (granted meager, but I feel probably not atypical sampling) I can only conclude that you feel that anything not blatantly pandering to Democrats is a voice of propoganda for the right.
At least on Fox, I don't have to see interviewers ask the REALLY tough questions like, "If you were a tree... what kind of tree would you be?"
You don't do too bad yourself. Leaving apart the mention of the Israeli parliament you make a decided comparison between Iranian TV and what Fox News is to the American nation.
Maybe if Fox hired Dan Rather to come up with some more forged documents you would be more forgiving. In any case thanks for making our point about the left's rabid intolerance and try and imagine how it's been for normal people to live with the bias of the mainstream media. Which you don't see.
And it's not hate, it's diversity, free speech,& the arena of open ideas, remember! You must at least maintain the pretense of believing what you say.
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville
both of those establishments-FAUX and Iranian TV have a very transparent propagandistic goal, not seen onle by already brainwashed and manipulated. Both of those serve the ruling elites tirelessly.
sl
but you have found us out Sashal. Now bow down and pledge your submission and I will great you riches beyond dreams. You will be a king of kooks and my warlord of conspiracies, bow down,take off your tinfoil helm, and pledge your allegiance to BooBooKitty the Magnificent!
Son of Rove, Ruler of the entire North American Union, and slayer of individualism and diversity! All hail BBK the Magnificent!
___________________________________________________________
Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
now if it had anything of a truth or at least a hint of reason, besides being total crappola.
Oh,well. 28% is still a lot of people.
sl
do you have any clue as to why you are here at Redstate?....
Do you have anything constructive to add to this site?...or do you just whine, pee and moan 24/7?
" in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."
Abe Lincoln
Or only official GOP talking points are allowed on this site to be in circulation?.
God , how this totalitarianism perniates the American thought process. I thought after the demise of the Soviet official authocratic rules of thinking, the USA will be immune to this. Oh, Human Nature, how vulnerable to brainwashing and manipulation. Approximately 30%.
sl
I will walk him every day and clean up after the messes promise.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
soap, water, gallons of tomato juice...
this on rolls in his own...
" in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."
Abe Lincoln
Or only official GOP talking points are allowed on this site to be in circulation?.
God , how this totalitarianism perniates the American thought process. I thought after the demise of the Soviet official authocratic rules of thinking, the USA will be immune to this. Oh, Human Nature, how vulnerable to brainwashing and manipulation. Approximately 30%.
This kind of clarity, logic, and sheer penetration of insight is like a breath of fresh air. I have to tell you, it is really rewarding to see my hard work pay off. And so I can now reveal something which I have thus far kept hidden. I reveal it now only because I know that no one but you and those in the know will believe it anyway.
To the extent that "only official GOP talking points" appear on this site, it's because we are the source of the official policy. President Bush and the Republican Party take their marching orders from us. Well, actually, from me.
It started during the run-up to the 2000 campaign, when I directed them to continue to use paper ballots in Florida, rather than switch to that loose cannon Diebold. It continued with my subtle construction of the theocracy after 9/11, with the easy manipulation of the ham-handed mope Rove. Scooter Libby lied to protect me, even though he didn't even know it until now. He actually thought he was just confused about where he got the information that Valerie Plame was married.
And I have skillfully manipulated the news and your online interaction to bring you here. All of those "friends" who agreed with you, and that special one you're trying to impress ... but it was all worth it, to read that comment.
Well done, and keep up the good work.
--
See the Academy
Go to dkos and try to post an opposing view. You CANNOT do it. As soon as you do, it is troll rated and you are villified. Then the post is either deleted or hidden. Spare me your bs, your posts are still up and available for anyone to read. It is on the dems blogs that this is done. Not on this blog. If you don't believe me, just go over there and post that you believe that appearing on Fox news can be beneficial to the dems. See how fast they call you names and erase your post.
when you are ready to enter that arena I will be glad to engage you in a civil discussion, but I assure you that your comments so far aren't quite there yet:
both of those establishments-FAUX and Iranian TV have a very transparent propagandistic goal, not seen onle by already brainwashed and manipulated. Both of those serve the ruling elites tirelessly.
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Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
carefully. You are going mad right in front of our eyes, not a bad thing as once again you assist in making our point about the health and stability of the left.
Not being a social worker I'll desist for a while, sit back and enjoy the further effusions of a "progressive". It's all yours babe, just don't get any spittle on your computer.
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville
Granted, Fox is not a state run television, but a network does not have to be state-run in order to be very biased.
The European Union did a very balanced report that, besides telling us that Chavez' new network was very unfair to the opposition and gave them only 14% of its air time, also told us that RCTV, a private network, gave the opposition 69% of air time, compared to 29% to officialist candidates. On the other big private network, Globovision, Manuel Rosales’ candidature obtained 65% of the coverage, and Chavez 35%.
Chavez' network was created to balance this disparity, and it gave officialists 86% of air time.
How does that relate to anything. If you want to say FOX is biased present some proof. Don't drum up "Maybe they coulds" and act as if you have proved anything.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Evidence? Look at this Fox memo:
The Fox post-election memo in '06 said, "The elections and Rumsfeld's resignations were a major event, but not the end of the world. The war on terror goes on without interruption."
"Let's be on the lookout for any statements from the Iraqi insurgents, who must be thrilled at the prospect of a Dem-controlled congress."
how balanced!
Ailes' anti-Obama joke
The headline saying that "WMD were found", after the discredited announcement by Santorum.
Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Wheres the links and the context?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Those statements cannot be made less right-wing if we look at the context surrounding them.
Have you argued that Ann Coulter's statements before and after her "fa99ot" remark might make them less offensive?
And do you ask for links because you think the memo does not exist?
I believe that sums up your position.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Help me find context making this look less like it came from the keyboard of a member of Freerepublic.
Came originally from the Huffington Post. A blog that has been noted for erasing their own history.
Putting aside the credibility issues, we don't know what came before or after it. So the context issue is still in the air.
The bigger question
Is seeing as the democrats ran on cutting and running why wouldn't an insurgent be happy about it ? Should Fox pretend this isn't an expected result of a Dem win ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
All Americans (and Iraqis), if asked "Would you like the U.S. out of Iraq by this time next year?" would say "Yes". That some would like us out immediately I do not doubt, but thankfully that does not include a majority of either house of Congress.
But "cut and run"? Only people who have hatred of George Bush for an article of faith want that. Or perhaps you can find me a counterexample.
Find me one American who wants to cut and run immediately who is not infected with BDS, and I will give you props.
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See the Academy
governed that way. Public opinion polls are no substitute for leadership! So, most Americans, ill-informed by the MSM, inundated by bad news from Iraq (again, by the MSM) and consistently barraged with the notion that;
1. Iraq is NOT a front in the GWoT
2. BushLied People Died!
3. Iraq is a quagmire!
These people, when polled, say "get out now."
When we allow mob rule to make US foreign policy, we are doomed as a nation.
Nice non answer, but this isn't about that. Its about why the memo is an indicator of bias and why Fox shouldn't look for an expected insurgent reaction.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I have no idea what you are ascribing as a non answer.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
that the chemical munitions in Iraq do not constitute WMD, and about Fox's headline stating that WMD were found.
why any American would believe that any terrorist would be
unhappy about a Democrat controlled Congress?
But just to make my non response clear. Mustard gas is a WMD. Its outlawed under the geneva convention for its use as such in WWI
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
wanted to cut and run, it would have already been done. Those who do want to cut and run have clearly identified who they want to win. That's why it's not a done deal today, even the the Democrats have a few politicians left who do not want the terrorists to win. It won't be too long before those of us who watched the leftists among the Democrats surrender Vietnam to the terrorists are gone, just as those who defended the US in WWII are leaving us. But if the US cuts and runs from Iraq, thats another 60 years of Americans that will know that the leftists among the Democrats have surrendered again to America's enemies.
I'm not sure why you say that the fact that troops have not withdrawn invalidates the claim that most Americans want us out.
this country will never get to the point that it is ran by polls. Hopefully, it will never, again, get the point where the foreign terrorists can't defeat us, but their supporters in the US can.
Isn't it obvious, dom? It invalidates the claim because the Democrats don't feel at all politically safe taking the measures that would be required for a pullout over and above the president's orders.
There are any number of avenues they could take. They could defund it, they could take Murtha's advice and attach money to unattainable benchmarks, they could rewrite either or both of the congressional authorizations (the AUMF and the IWR).
But they're not doing any of this -- and there's a reason why.
The reason is that it's simply not true that people just want us to get out of Iraq no matter the consequences. The consequences matter to people. Of course they want us out of there -- I do too. But they want us out of there contingent upon the Iraqis being able to provide for their own security.
Big difference. And the Dems in Congress have gotten that message.
Then why do you suppose the Democrats are wholly unable to put in place any such policy?
The reason is because they don't have the votes to do it -- and the reason they don't have the votes is because they're smart enough to realize that it would be political suicide in a lot of the districts that carried them to the majority.
You're reading the tea leaves wrong.
the fact that the Huffington Post is distributing the memo does not make the memo fake.
There are two things that could support your case:
1-)The Huffington Post made up this memo
2-)There are more pages to the memo that somehow alter the meaning of this quote.
I find both highly unlikely, since Fox would have treated this forgery very seriously.
Anything HuffPuff says is presumed false.
--
See the Academy
Oh btw the Memo is no longer on their site. They just mention it but don't show it.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
believe that "Let's be on the lookout for any statements from the Iraqi insurgents, who must be thrilled at the prospect of a Dem-controlled congress." is an unbalanced statement?
Is there a single American that honestly believes the Iraqi insurgents don't think they are better off because of a Dem-controlled congress?
because when CNN says something that the left agrees with, you will find biased, call them communist, and my side will not.
Is FNC a right-leaning news organization? Yes. But no more right-leaning than basically all of the other major ones are left-leaning.
I'll never understand why anybody would have such a hard time seeing and confessing bias. I certainly don't when it comes to FNC. But as soon as we point out that the Big 3 networks, the other two cables news channels, all the major newspapers save the Wall Street Journal, the 3 major newsweeklies, NPR/PBS, etc. etc. etc. are biased to the left, we get books like Eric Alterman's that simply insult everybody's intelligence.
As Bernie Goldberg has said, if the left wants to trade the right its information outlets for ours, we'd take that trade in a heartbeat. You can have talk radio and Fox News if we can have all the outlets mentioned above, Hollywood, academia, the journalism schools, etc.
Sorry, I had to ask that, since I was asked for evidence previously. Show me a study comparing the number of Republican and Democratic guests invited to CNN and Fox. I can give you one, but FAIR, which is a liberal organization, but was careful not to label the guests as "conservative, centrist or liberal", because this would be subject to controversy.
"They counted the Republicans and Democrats in the shows and this was the breakdown, in 2003:
So who a network books as guests is indicative of its own ideological stance?
Good grief, if you really need some kind of quantitative evidence that the vast majority of the mainstream media is biased to the left, then I'm not sure what to say.
How about the polls taken of voting in presidential elections by the MSM folks? Most of them are 9-1 Democrat.
Hell, even many of them aren't keeping up the pretense of objectivity anymore. At various times I've seen each of the following confess that their profession is dominated by lefties:
Evan Thomas
Barbara Walters
Andy Rooney
Hugh Downs
Walter Cronkite
Thomas Ricks
Howard Kurtz
I could go on -- but it's pointless. This is hardly even worth debating. Like I said, FNC is a right-leaning news outlet. And anybody who denies that is just kidding themselves.
But all the ones I named are left-leaning news organizations. And, likewise, anybody who denies it is kidding themselves.
The problem, I suspect, is that bias is extremely easy to see when it's going against you...but virtually invisible when it's in your favor. That's why so many on the right truly believe that Fox is "fair and balanced" and so many on the left ask "What liberal media?"
You do know how dishonest that is right?
CNN and FOX News are interested in interviewing policy setters and implementers in Government. The past six years, the Administration in the White House has been a Republican Administration.
So, tell me, would they be interviewing a Republican or a Democrat when they invite the Secretary of Defense for an interview? What about the Secretary of State, Justice, Treasury, etc.?
That's why using the guests invited to television news shows is so dumb as a measure of bias ... but it successfully fools people like you, so I guess it works.
Why don't you try checking out the partisan affiliations, endorsements, and campaign contribution histories of the reporters, producers, editors and owners of mainstream news media outlets? That says more than counting the number of guests from either side.
Why don't start with CBS and it's Chairman, the self proclaimed "liberal Democrat" and Hillary Clinton fund raising host, Sumner Redstone? Then we can go to Leslie Moonves, Katie Couric, etc.
You in contrast attack network owners without citing Rupert Murdoch's and Roger Ailes' right-wing background.
like this
Publisher of The New York Times and Chairman of The New York Times Company
Arrested twice in 1960s anti-Vietnam War demonstrations
Said he preferred to see an American, not a North Vietnamese, get shot during Vietnam War because "[i]t's the other guy's country"
Supported racial quotas at Times
"We are enormously powerful, and we are very scary." -- Arthur Sulzberger, Jr., 2003 Associated Press interview
And it's something substantial unlike the partisan affiliation of guests.
Somehow, you're under the mistaken impression that I think FOX News is politically neutral. I know they lean Right. Just like you. What I want you to acknowledge is that CBS leans Left.
Which I think you just have. That's good.
I want you to also acknowledge that ABC leans Left. We can start by examining Robert Iger (Chairman of Disney - owner of ABC) whose political contributions are 85% Democrat. Then we can go on to the President of ABC Ann Sweeney and News Division head David Westin ... all Democratic contributors.
I can go on to NBC. And then CNN. Afterwards I can introduce you the New York Times Company, the Washington Post and McClatchy, Gannett and the Gazette companies.
All liberal run and owned.
I can do this all day.
You mean the same Rupert Murdoch who hosted a fund-raiser for Hillary Clinton?
But don't let facts get in the way of the meme. Then things just wouldn't be as cut-and-dry, would they?
Those are chemical munition shells. Why does this indicate bias ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
...and posed only a local hazard.
This is what Duelfer (ex head of US weapons inspections in Iraq) had to say during the
Reply To This — User Info — #104
and wheels when moving those goalposts. I could ask what you would consider WMD but I am certain the answer would be whatever you were confident would never be found.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Not duelfer.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Yes fox news's headline was accurate.
Mustard gas is considered a WMD by most people
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/cw-program.htm
and if you don't like their definition try editing the wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
The adjective degraded converts this into a whole different story. Duelfer spoke in the interview with NPR specifically about the mustard gas contained in these munitions. He said:
Sarin agent decays, you know, at a certain rate, as does mustard agent. What we found, both as U.N. and later when I was with the Iraq Survey Group, is that some of these rounds would have highly degraded agent, but it is still dangerous. You know, it can be a local hazard. If an insurgent got it and wanted to create a local hazard, it could be exploded.
Is that fox is biased because a reporter did not know the difference in potency of mustard gas ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
His own reporting stated that this was degraded Mustard gas. At this point our personal views take over. You, believe the Fox reporter made an innocent mistake in his headline, and I believe that he purposely mislead the public.
Exactly the same situation as the New York Times decision to label the NSA's Terrorist Surveillance operation a "Domestic Spying Program."
...do you really see reporters these days as much more than airheads who can look ok on camera? I'm unimpressed across the board with the mental power of the on-air talent, regardless of network or cable outlet :-)
more than Walter Cronkite and his media friends in Vietnam.
But that doesn't mean that the MSM media today isn't trying.
What is making the difference, in my opinion, is the internet.
The best example of that, is that many more Americans now know that those terrorists fighting against America got exactly what they wanted when the Democrats gained control of Congress in Nov 2006. The MSM can still mislead the public, but now the correct infomation can be put out for public view instantly.
...anything about these weapons? For example, do you know what it is that makes it degraded, and what the difference in threat is?
And would you feel all right about having mustard gas used around you, as long as it was "degraded"?
Good grief, we got statements from -- among others -- Ayatollah Khameini ("a victory for the Iranian nation") and Ayman al-Zawahiri trumpeting the Democrats' victory last November.
Fox News doesn't have to say it -- those folks said it for them.
Look, dom, you don't need to be so defensive about it. The fact of the matter is that the Islamists and their allies in various endeavors have gotten it with both barrels from the Bush Administration -- good, bad, or indifferent. It's not surprising that they'd relish in a political defeat for GWB.
But the quotes and statements are there, from the horses' mouths. You may not like that our enemies took delight in your party's electoral victory -- but that doesn't make it any less factual that they did.
And by the way, you give me quotes from Al Zawahiri, and Iran's leader, when the quote was about Iraqi insurgents.
Al Zawahiri celebrating the Democratic Party's victory is somehow "better" than it being celebrated by his protege leading Al Qaeda in Iraq ... or some idiot with a bomb strapped to his underwear.
OK, here you go. The following is a quote from Abu Hamza al-Mujahir, the man who replaced Abu Musab al-Zarqawi as leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, following the November election:
"The American people have put their feet on the right path by ... realizing their president's betrayal in supporting Israel. So they voted for something reasonable in the last elections."
Happy? Like I said, it's not as if it was inaccurate (or hard to believe) that those we're fighting take pleasure in seeing their nemesis suffer a political defeat.
i don't think it's fair to equate fox news with iranian TV. a better analogy might be that fox news is like a minor league for the white house. tony snow got to hone his skills in preparation for one of the hardest jobs in the country. when brit hume has mastered the fundamentals, he will get his shot at the big leagues too (he's in terrible shape and he still can't hit a curveball).
Note: This jump to the left margin is to avoid a two-word column.
Let's examine Duelfer's own words for a moment:
The addendums complete the record of the DCI’s Special Advisor on Iraq’s WMD. No doubt further information will become available over time. As Iraqi participants in these programs begin to speak more freely (publicly), new information and perspectives may emerge. It is a complicated set of events and perspectives will vary widely with the reporter. Of course, certain individual participants within the Regime were well positioned to observe the programs and decisions, but they are not without their own set of biases. Those Iraqis who are subject to judicial proceedings may well revise or reverse statements provided to ISG investigators. Nevertheless, when Iraqis look back on the events of the past three decades and develop their own versions of the role of WMD, it will add to overall understanding. I hope this will not contradict substantively this report, but add context and refinement.
Much has come to light since this was written to accompany the Addendums to the Comprehensive Report - March 2005.
One such item surfaced by Duelfer’s own admission: Less than ten-percent of the facilities on the ISG’s list of known and suspected weapons sites were inspected. As conditions on the ground in Iraq grew more dangerous, the safety of the inspectors could not be guaranteed, and the ISG folded-up shop and went home.
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“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
My father gave me this advise about "telling lies." If you tell a lie you have to remember what you said. The truth needs no memory. If you tell a lie long enough you begin to believe it. I think the latter is your problem with media bias.
Don't know if you're aware, but Redstate 2.0 has threaded comments. Just click the Reply To This tab. It's much easier to follow the discussion. ;)
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“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
With Moveon.org and the Kosmonuts in your family get ready for a whole lot of pain.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777