The Veil of Nancy Pelosi

pelosi gets pwned in Syria

By streiff Posted in Comments (77) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

ImageThe image of the Speaker of the House of Representatives, a constitutional officer and third in line for the presidency, wearing what appears to be either a tablecloth or the thickest scarf in the history of the world was unsettling to many. Me among them.

Now come her apologists who claim, maybe correctly maybe not, that the photo was taken while she visited a mosque – or more accurately a Christian shrine that has been appropriated as a mosque – and her wearing Islamic garb under those conditions was justified.

Is that the case?

Read on.

We’ve all been raised on the saying, “when in Rome, etc.” like any timeless aphorism there is a grain of truth so long as it is mixed with a degree of common sense. There are lots of activities that go on in different parts of the world that common sense tells us we should not participate in just because we are "in Rome."

Speaker Pelosi clearly violates the rule of common sense by slapping on a singularly unattractive hijab while visiting Syria ostensibly in her role as Speaker and not as a private citizen.

If the photo was taken in a mosque, she had other options available to her.

1. Take a private tour. The issue of wearing funny headgear revolves around offending the sensibilities of the locals. No locals. No offense. She is there as a sightseer, not a worshipper so going sans chapeau would be entirely appropriate. Surely the Speaker has enough juice to arrange a private tour.

2. Wear a hat. I know it’s thinking outside the box but she could wear a hat, achieve the requisite headcovering, and retain a modicum of self-respect. Women wearing hats to Mass is a tradition that died out in Catholicism with Vatican II but it is an option that a non-dhimmi would have explored.

For instance, this scene is from a Mass in Netherlands in the 1940s. Look closely and you will see hats. Lots of hats.

Mass at Oude Roomse Kerk, the Netherlands”

3. Wear a chapel veil. This trend is developing in some Catholic communities. It would be a two-fer, she would have a head covering and she would be adhering to her religious tradition which is some variety of Catholicism that supports abortion (our lamented poster Tom Crowe referred to them as “Catholycs”).

a chapel veil”

This meets the criteria of wearing a head covering plus it would be sending a very strong message to Assad, and to the Islamic world, that we are dealing with them as equals not as supplicants.

Were she traveling as a private citizen this would be no more significant that me wearing a sombrero on a rampage through Nuevo Laredo, but she is traveling as the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives. Mosque or no mosque, the Speaker sends a message to the Islamic world that we follow their rules. That is wrong.

But let’s do a thought experiment. Muslim men wear turbans, khaffiyeh, etc. It is Christian tradition that men remove their hats in church (see 1 Cor 11:4 for the source). Should a muslim man remove his hat in a Christian church in deference to our sensibilities? Even when just sightseeing or spreading jihadi propaganda? Specifically when Former Iranian President Mohammad Khatami presented a lecture at the National Cathedral, the cathedral that hosted the National Day of Prayer and Remembrance after 9/11 and the funeral of Ronaldus Magnus, what did he do?

Khatami despoiling the National Cathedral”

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She is also modeling the future fashion trend for Europe and a Democrat controlled US.

"Libralism is for people who can't handle reality"

Soldiers' Angels

Rather than dealing with the world from a position of rationally-defined strength, the biggest thing the Left - from Kerry to Pelosi - has campaigned on lately is the redefinition (and humbling) of our position in the world. Better that we follow every whim and rule of theirs, than actually act like our own sovereign nation.

...is the fact that few concepts resonate with Americans more than "humility in strength". Our favorite heroes - from our soldiers to our movie characters - have this quality. But when "Speak softly and carry a big stick" becomes "Speak softly* and chop off your stick so the other guy won't feel bad about having a smaller stick", our admiration does a 180.

"I should be allowed to think" -- John Linnell

*[or shrilly, as the case may be]

Why would any Muslim Leader doff his headgear in deference to an APOSTATE religion? Don't you know that there's but one true God and his Name is AllAH!(pbuh and all who bow at his mention)
Strieff,you will learn this at the re-education center after the Most glorious and holy democrats turn the keys to the kingdom over to the believers.
You will learn your true place and you will not dare speak out.
Have you picked out a nice prayer rug yet?? Time's wasting.
Nevermind questioning the democrats patriotism,question their sanity!

"You never need a firearm,until you need it BADLY!"

except that the scarf around the head isn't black.

I propose a compromise: she takes the thing off, but stuffs it in her mouth when she is tempted to say anything silly, sycophantic or unconstitutional.

Note to file: place BIG scarf order with Nordstroms and list in tax records as political contribution, not charity.

make great penance gifts! God knows I bought enough of them over late night phone calls not answered.

Maybe we just make it US policy to buy lots of them and send them to all the people around the world we've offended.

In Vino Veritas

double standard. I have read too many apologists posts here about Pelosi showing courtesy to the locals. When the muslims come to UK or US they don't show any respect to remove their hat in a Christian church. They don't want their children to be taught about holocausts in history class. They don't want to see any cartoons with the prophet mohammed. They don't want to have anybody enter their taxicab with booze, pork, or a dog. They do not want to ring up any pork products at the cash register. They want to sue anybody who dares to report suspicious activities on their part at the airports. When in Rome do as...... Right tell that to the muslims.

You’re a persistent cuss, pilgrim.
John Wayne to Jimmy Stewart in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

...like Hillary kissing Suha Arafat. We don't expect this story to go anywhere either, but we tend to remember these little incidents when putting things in perspective.

and Reagan's visit to Bitburg which became a media feeding frenzy.

Oh, wait, there was a difference. Reagan was visiting with the chancellor of a friendly nation and he was a Republican.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

...with what a Republican would be tarred and feathered for.

[just say NO to spambotting]

Seriously, this is terrible.

an equivalence between a private citizen and the Speaker of the House.

Read my story. I don't draw that equivalence. In fact, I deny that equivalence.

Personally, I think it is wrong and unconscionable for any Westerner to ape Islamic standards of dress and behavior. But if they are in a private capacity that is between them and their conscience. If they are representing the nation, particularly when insinuating themselves, extra-constitutionally, into foreign policy it is wrong.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

They just thought she was some woman named Laura who got lost from her tour group?

"Sorry, I'm looking for the bathroom?"

That sort of thing?

Which she is. Laura Bush is a public figure, but she is not an official member of the United States government. Unlike, say, Nancy Pelosi.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

...hanging out with the twins.

She was there representing the United States of America as the First Lady and you can bet had she gone and spit on people or yelled, "Death to WHOMEVER" it would not have been sluffed off as "some private citizen".

which treaty did she negotiate?

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

...is Nancy negotiating?

the terms of our surrender. But I only know what I read in the papers.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

...I will relent that somehow Nancy's headscarf is the end of the world, whereas Laura's is so much nothing about nothing.

there's your proof.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

...visiting an ally. Not an American government official visiting a state sponsor of terrorism that she herself condemned not three years before.

Moe

PS: Please demonstrate that you now understand and will comply with our policy on spambotting.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

because I'm pretty sure the sky on your planet is a different color, too. But the First Lady isn't an elected official. I know, that comes as a shock, but the First Lady is a private citizen who has some prominence. I wouldn't be concerned about Heather Mills or Angelina Jolie, in their UN spokescritter roles, wore strange headgear because they are not representing the US.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

Laura Bush = Angelina Jolie = Heather Mills.

All the same.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

...any and all security detail, seeing as the taxpayers are wasting money on this private citizen with the symbolic importance of a third rate country singer and an actress.

We'll solve the budget crisis after all.

and Al Gore and Jimmy Carter? They are all private citizens and they have a security detail. FTR, I'd rather have Angelina Jolie safe than any of those three.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

You may safely assume that we have seen links. If you have too much contempt for the other readers here to be able to so assume, do yourself a favor and read some other site.

Moe

PS: What streiff later noted.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

If you'd like to post a list of things already discussed and deemed irrelevant, then great, otherwise I'll do my best to just guess.

Do. Not. Spambot. Do not post multiple links to the same site in the same thread. It will get you tossed.

Do you understand now?

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

I posted two DIFFERENT pictures of Laura Bush wearing a head scarf from the White House website.

If that is spam botting, toss away.

But I'm waiting for your response on whether you understand our policy, and will comply.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

...and will take a moment to read it before posting anew.

But feel free to toss me... your site.

...your pet oathbreaker.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

.

George W. Bush: He's A Folder ... Not A Fighter.

why not wear a kevlar helmet. It would match her face and she could tape a supply of botox to it.

"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville

that Pelosi should have worn a hat instead of a scarf when she entered a mosque.

There is no end of good reasons to criticize Pelosi. Unless it can be shown that she was not in a mosque when she put on the scarf, there is no basis for criticizing her for this.

"During my lifetime, all our problems have come from mainland Europe, and all the solutions from the English-speaking nations across the world." - Thatcher

1. the hijab is forbidden in some European countries (like France) and does not belong with the Judeo-Christian culture. Wearing the hijab makes a political statement, whether you like it or not. The statement is probably that Pelosi is just another multiculturalist with a tin ear when received here in the US, in the islamic world it is the #3 elected official in the US pretending she is a muslim.

2. Yes, even in a mosque, there are at least three very good reasons to criticize her. I spell them out above. You may not like the reasons which is entirely up to you, but there are very good reasons for her acting like a dhimmi.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

In any case, today traditional Jewish women wear scarves to cover their hair when they go out in public or when they go to the synagogue. Sometimes they wear wigs, sometimes hats, and sometimes scarves.

Until the 50's, it was common to see scarves in churches. It is still seen in certain orthodox Christian churches.

You're making a lot out of nothing.

"During my lifetime, all our problems have come from mainland Europe, and all the solutions from the English-speaking nations across the world." - Thatcher

"Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?" (Macaulay)

for support. I cite common sense for support. The issue of the French outlawing the hijab is merely to underscore that wearing a hijab is outside of Western cultural boundaries.

In any case, today traditional Jewish women wear scarves to cover their hair when they go out in public or when they go to the synagogue. Sometimes they wear wigs, sometimes hats, and sometimes scarves.

Until the 50's, it was common to see scarves in churches. It is still seen in certain orthodox Christian churches.

Read the story, I address the last para in detail. I approve of that. I would have approved of Pelosi doing that in Syria. Because that is a Western and Christian tradition.

Pelosi hasn't yet claimed to be Jewish and hasn't been seen to be impersonating one so I'm not sure what that comment is about. No one has said that Jewish or islamic women shouldn't wear scarves, only that nominal Roman Catholic women shouldn't ape muslim dress codes.

When you get your own blog you can write about things that interst you. Of course, that would require actually writing something rather than sniping at other people. No one is making you either read this or comment on it. If you think it is not important then you're free to ignore it.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

but obviously no one else has taken the trouble to reel you in.

If you want to be an irrational, rabid hater of Pelosi, knock yourself out. Just don't expect everyone else to stand aside and not tell you that you're being foolish.

You can go back to frothing at the mouth now...

"During my lifetime, all our problems have come from mainland Europe, and all the solutions from the English-speaking nations across the world." - Thatcher

who is looking foolish in this.

Were I looking for advice on avoiding looking silly you'd certainly be one of the last people I'd consult unless it was in the context of "don't look like me."

Actually, words like obsessive, irrational, rabid and frothing are ones I'd apply to your little bloggyhorse campaign here.

You made your point at least half a dozen comments ago, and now you're just moving further into left field with each new comment.

---
Internet member since 1987
Member of the Surreality-Based Community

and, you don't want to keep your masters waiting. You'd best go check.

"Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?" (Macaulay)

That was uncalled-for.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

As the old saying goes, if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the dogs who yelp the loudest are most likely the ones your rock hit.

"Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?" (Macaulay)

"No one has said that Jewish or islamic women shouldn't wear scarves, only that nominal Roman Catholic women shouldn't ape muslim dress codes."

Pretty well sums it up. If that is frothing, you have a lot to learn pal.

The MSM will ignore it. No surprise there. Or, they'll send Wimp Howard Kurtz out with a critique of how conservatives are overblowing this story. Don't wait for the MSM to criticize her; they won't. Instead, they'll write stories about cretin conservatives---stories that will draw approving backslaps at Davos and Hollywood parties.

That should not deter us. Our audience is not the dhimmis-in-waiting MSMers and American elites.

It is, instead, that percentage of the American electorate who voted against enough Republicans in 2006 to put the Dems in power. The Dems then responded by choosing to place San Fran Nan in the third position in line to the US Presidency. And, in this picture and this trip, we see how San Fran Nan exercises that power.

Show this to the districts that elected Steve Kagan, Nancy Boyda, Patrick Murphy, Joe Sestak, Chris Carney, Gabrielle Giffords, Harry Mitchell, Heath Shuler, etc...

Make THOSE representatives defend San Fran Nan. (Good luck!) Then, in 2008, the GOP should tell voters in those districts that, the only way to shut up Speaker Dhimmi is to oust her (and Henry Waxman and Chuck Schumer and Charles Rangel and Patrick Leahy et al et al) from power.

I suspect that the majority of voters in these districts don't look on San Fran Nan and her photo ops with pride. I suspect they don't think of her in a hijab as the kind of example they want Americans to set overseas. Instead, I think they'll favor the example set by the Irish-American athlete on the US Olympic team at the 1908 London Olympics.

As a front-page article alluded to yesterday, tradition in the opening ceremonies was for all nations to dip their flags to the host head of state. Prior to the American team entering the parade, this Irish-American athelete approached our flag bearer and told him that, if the American flag dipped to the British king, the flag bearer would be in the hospital that night.

The US flag didn't dip---a tradition that continues to this day. The British were outraged. When a US Olympic official was quizzed by a hostile press afterward...did he apologize for offending local sensibilities?

No. Instead, he said that the US flag "dips to no earthly king."

THAT's the kind of spirit foreign to San Fran Nan. It's not foreign, though, to a majority of American voters.

40% of the US electorate (and 90% of the Davos-worshiping MSM) will loudly support San Fran Nan. But, it only takes 51% of voters in enough districts to relegate her to the backbenches again.

Let us show this picture widely, obnoxiously and often. Let us condemn San Fran Nan for her perfidy, and make her convince the American people otherwise---especially, that 51% of voters in the right districts. I'd like to see her try.

This is ammunition. We should expect our leaders to use it.

"Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?" (Macaulay)

You’re a persistent cuss, pilgrim.
John Wayne to Jimmy Stewart in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

IMO Redstate should be leading with this picture for a while.

"Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?" (Macaulay)

First post and quite frankly it's tiring to be surrounded by this much hypocrisy from both sides.

Why is it fine for Laura Bush to wear a viel at the 3rd most holy site in Islam - http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/05/22/laura.bush/index.html How soon we forget. I'm tired of it...

...but at least read the threads all the way through first. Try again, Sparky.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

Upon reflection, it is more becoming than her tiara.

How's that approach, gideon1789? :>)

"During my lifetime, all our problems have come from mainland Europe, and all the solutions from the English-speaking nations across the world." - Thatcher

When I've gone to Europe on vacation, I've gone into a number of cathedrals and churches. And virtually 100% of them have a sign out front that says "no shorts please". And nonbelievers who visit these places should respect that.

This is absolutely the same thing. It's simply a sign of respect for another one's religion.

It's not so much an issue in the US, because in the US churches are places of worship. In Europe, they're tourist destinations.

Now, one can question whether or not she should be there in the first place. I certainly do. But being respectful of the mosque while she was there? Not a problem.

first, your example is a non sequitur. She wasn't wearing shorts and no one has produced evidence that there was a sign in front of the mosque. Shirts and shorts, whether or not they are worn, are not religious apparel. Those signs, and I say that having lived there, typically admonish you to be quiet, also. If the sign said, "Don't enter without a rosary" then you'd have a point. BTW, if you had bothered to read the story you would have seen that I differentiate between the actions of a private citizen and of a government official.

There is a difference if being respectful (I offered three very respectful alternatives in the story) and aping a religious practice. There is even more of a difference when the person you are talking about is the Speaker.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

the criticism of Sec. Rice and the First Lady doing the same thing? Shouldn't there be even MORE of a difference?

You don't have to have a sign to know what the practices and customs of a place are - if you do a little research first.

What I said about Pelosi applies to Rice. The difference is that the Rice photo is over two years old.

Second, we talked about the First Lady up thread. She's a private citizen.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

"The difference is that the Rice photo is over two years old."

So? Wrong then, wrong now, if it is wrong at all to show a sign of respect to people who you are trying to influence through diplomacy. I remember when this photo first came out with Rice, and there was ZERO criticism from anyone about it.

And there's nothing wrong with that at all, just as there is nothing wrong with Pelosi wearing a head scarf. But it sure is a convenient way to knock her. Not very effective, though.

there is a difference between how you act with an ally and an enemy. What is normally considered a gesture of good will by an ally can be propagandized as an act of submission by an enemy.
___________________________________________________________
Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes

that the most effective way to get people who aren't your allies to do things you want is to demean them, treat them rudely, and to not respect them in any way. That has a great track record of bringing people around to your position.

while they slip the knife between your ribs.
___________________________________________________________
Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes

for getting things done there. I suppose this explains the gigantic strides Sec. Rice has been making in spreading Democracy and peace in the Middle East lately.

Which is to say, waiting until a Democratic President is in office before they'll deign to do something about oppression abroad.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

we all know that solving oppression around the world is the highest priority for our senators and congressmen and the reason they were elected.

Forget those domestic issues, that's small potatoes...

...remind her that she isn't actually part of the executive branch of government and make her go back to Washington DC to the job that she was elected for*.

Since you're so concerned with domestic policy, and everything.

Moe

*Which is, by the way, representing California's 8th District. If we want her to set foreign policy we'll elect her President.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

Should I round up the various, unmentioned Republican congressmen who are there doing the same thing, and tell them to go as well?

It isn't up to me to tell Pelosi that she can't travel to Syria and talk to influential people there if she likes. Besides; I'd like to see progress in the region, and I really don't care who is responsible for it. Rice certainly isn't getting the job done - at all - so why not Pelosi?

As to why not Pelosi: she wasn't elected for that job, and the man who was elected - twice - picked somebody else. Deal with it or not, as you please: but let's stop pretending that there's anything noble about what Pelosi's doing. You seem rather strenuously to be avoiding dealing with her Syrian stance in 2003, so let me be blunt: her actions today reek in comparison, as does your willingness to defend her. Just to make sure that you never get to be told that.

I think that we're done here, don't you?

Moe

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

What’s the point of having this superb military you’re always talking about, if we can’t use it

This quote is probably what caused the two embassy bombings in Africa right?
___________________________________________________________
Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes

what it is SUBMISSION. All cultures are not equal. This PC cr*p in the name of cultural diversity could be the death of us.
I thought it was telling today the Iranian President made a point about how UK should not have sent a woman to sea. The woman's place is to stay home with her children. Many in the culture also practice female genital mutilation and strapping suicide vests onto their womenfolk. I don't suppose anybody will suggest Nancy submit to this out of respect for local customs.

You’re a persistent cuss, pilgrim.
John Wayne to Jimmy Stewart in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

Look. I don't disagree. She shouldn't have been there in the first place. Her choice is 'go or not go', and we're both in agreement I think that she chose poorly there.

Having chosen to go, however, wearing the appropriate clothing for the location is simply not an issue. One shouldn't go out of ones way to offend one's host. Now I have no idea whether or not any of your 3 suggestions would have been non-offensive to the hosts. I suspect strongly that 'receive a private tour and not wear anything like that' would have been offensive, but I don't know. But neither do you, so suggesting that these were definitely alternatives isn't supported. For all you and I know, these alternatives were explored.

of whether or not men should have removed their turbans in the National Cathedral - it's not an appropriate analogy. Unless, of course, there's some aspect of Catholic tradition that forbids wearing of head scarves that I'm unfamiliar with, as a Southern Baptist.

I'm shocked that you would say that (btw, it isn't a "head scarf" chicks wear head scarfs) because I provided you with the Scriptural reference as to why men take their headgear off in church.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

for the very reasons I laid out in my response. Your example is 1) a sign, 2) for the public, 3) about non-religious clothing. So it just doesn't make sense.

As to offensive, I'm underwhelmed by offending an fascist dictatorship.

If the alternatives were explored, it is a lick on her for trading self-respect for a trip to a mosque.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

 
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