I told you people so

By Erick Posted in Comments (152) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

I have blogged repeatedly here at RedState that we must clean our own house lest the voters clean it for us.

I have been ignored.

I have made the case that we should rally around ousting Ken Calvert. I was ignored.

The grand jury investigating his land deal has now determined that yes, in fact, the law was broken in the transaction.

The story was ignored.

And today we have Larry Craig (R-Idaho) soliciting sex in a men's bathroom in an airport. Well, and not even today. But in June. He's pled guilty. And we're just finding out about it today.

I can only say he must resign.

Then I must say I told you so. If we do not clean our own house, the voters will do it for us.


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Today. No doubt about it.
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First State Politics

change their party affiliation to "D", with the explanation that their lifestyle fits better in the Democratic Party.

Calvert could stand shoulder to shoulder with Harry Reid and Craig with Barney Frank.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

Or are you saying that criminals belong in the Dem party? I'm a bit confused by your comment.

Is this really going to be the party that rejects all homosexuals? If so, that's fine, say so. I think we can all look at Sen. Craig and be offended by his illegal activity and his hypocrisy. However, if he happens to be gay, does that mean he cannot be a Republican?

In fact, I'm sure he doesn't think so.

Sorry.

George W. Bush: He's A Folder ... Not A Fighter.

Of course a gay American can be a Republican. I admit, it is hard to attain public office outside of a few states while being openly gay, for members of either party.

Most people were aware that Mark Foley was gay before his scandal broke. Before we had evidence of sexual activity with underage males, however, his personal sex life did not "disqualify" him as a Republican Congressman. Personally speaking, I was aware of rumors about Sen. Craig's sexuality before this incident, but I thought nothing of it--until he attempted to solicit a prostitute.

If anything, I wish more homosexual GOP officials would come out, to show that the majority do not resort to prostitutes and underage boys, but either act on their desires with consenting unpaid fellow adults or do not have sexual partners at all.

www.mikehuckabee.com

And, I completely agree with your post.

I have no problem with homosexuals in the Republican Party. I do have a problem with people who solicit sex of any variety in restrooms serving in Congress. Or people who let their shack-up whores run a red-light district out of their house. Or people who use Congressional Pages for sex toys.

I also have a problem with Reid, Feinstein, Jefferson, and the sleeze from WV (in the House) still sitting in Congress.

And yes, I think that criminals and traitors and anti-American thugs feel right at home in the Democratic Party.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

about criminal behavior. I also agree with you on Reid, and especially Jefferson. However, I do not agree with your last comment. Unfortunately, when it comes to politics and politicians (especially Washington politicians) thugs and criminals see to be at home in both parties right now.

John Kerry is a Democrat and was their nominee for POTUS. He should be charged with treason for his actions in Paris in '71 while an officer in the USNR. Teddy the Hutt attempted to coordinate a disinformation campaign with the Soviets to undermine Reagan. He also should be charged with treason.

With respect to "thugs", the Republicans are unfortunately small potatos when it comes to laying waste to the Democrats. I wish it weren't so. With any luck our next cycle will give us a Republican POTUS who can't spell NewTone™ and who will set about to destroy - legislatively, professionally and personally - the current leadership of the Democratic Party.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

I couldnt agree more. Any ethically challenged Republican needs to be challenged and tossed out on their butt. We can't talk about morality and values when we have bums like this in office.

This is so right on target. We cannot convey fidelity to our conservative principles and morals and ethics in government and ignore this. If the Republican leadership cannot do this, then the base must and will.

The biggest problem America has is that while its a land of laws, the laws you get depend on who you are. The law for an illegal alien needs to be the same as the law for strumpet starlets ego tripping jocks and immoral congresscritters.

One nation one law. No more the best legal system money can buy.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Don't know about Risch, but Dirk Kempthorne is a very well known and liked Idahoan. Former governor and current cabinet secretary (Interior?), he'll be looking for someting to do after 2008.

I don't know if Kempthorne is a rock-ribbed conservative, but I doubt he'd turn up being gay. Then again, trying to succeed an outed gay man with a name like Dirk might bring with it a whole different set of challenges.

-----------------------
Develop alternatives to existing policies and keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes the politically inevitable. Milton Friedman

Details still seem pretty thin on Craig, but I find it hard to believe (borderline unbelievable) that a US Senator is going to be soliciting sex in an airport bathroom.

First off, I can't say that I was aware that soliciting sex (so long as it isn't for money). And what are the odds that Craig actually knew (a) where to go in a MN restroom for sex and (b) what apparently are some pretty obscure signals for getting sex there:

At 1216 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct. Craig tapped his toes several times and moves his foot closer to my foot.... The presence of others did not seem to deter Craig as he moved his right foot so that it touched the side of my left foot which was within my stall area. Craig then proceeded to swipe his hand under the stall divider several times.
Craig stated "that he has a wide stance when going to the bathroom and that his foot may have touched mine," the arrest report states. Craig also told the arresting officer that he reached down with his right hand to pick up a piece of paper that was on the floor. "It should be noted that there was not a piece of paper on the bathroom floor, nor did Craig pick up a piece of paper," the arresting officer said in the report.

That said, he pleaded guilty to something.

http://www.myelectionanalysis.com

Yuck - Any piece of paper that falls on an airport bathroom floor should be promptly doused with gasoline and burned.

Airport sex in the gay community is quite common. It got so bad in Atlanta that they had to start patrolling the Men's rooms with plain clothes officers. My good friend is a State Trooper in Wisconsin and has told me about busting "meetups" at the rest stops that are coordinated online.

Not sure if that is what Craig was involved in, but a blogger last year outed him for having sexual relations in the bathroom at Union Station. At the time it was skeptical, but now looks like it has some credibility.

If any of this is true, he needs to resign immediately. I don't care what people do in their bedrooms or who they sleep with, but a United States Senator having sex in Men's rooms at major airports is an embarrasment to the party and our country.

He plead guilty.

You also didn't show the part in the report where he was looking through the crack in the police officers stall for two minutes.

Reading the whole report, he remained outside fidgeting and looking in until a stall opened up, and he promptly entered. Sounds like an old man who had to use the bathroom.

Do I believe he's guilty? Probably. The lack of paper on the floor convinces me more than that though.

www.mikehuckabee.com

He pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge, he had his sentence suspended. It sounds like, notwithstanding anything else, he got some preferential treatment he should not have gotten.

As an aside, I remember from reading Pat Buchanan's autobiography some 20 years ago or so how when he was a kid he'd been arrested for disorderly conduct a number of times in connection to his wild youth. (This in no way excuses the Senator's action, fwiw.)

---
(Formerly known as bee) / Internet member since 1987
Member of the Surreality-Based Community

Hes driving a bus this time.
You can sit next to Sneators Vitter, Decamp. Hamilton Jordan is up front, with gary condit and Jim Mcgeevey and Barney Frank.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

don't seem to be much cause for Concern

"One of the documents, a KGB report to bosses in the Soviet Communist Party Central Committee, revealed that "In 1978, American Sen. Edward Kennedy requested the assistance of the KGB to establish a relationship" between the Soviet apparatus and a firm owned by former Sen. John Tunney (D.-Calif.). KGB recommended that they be permitted to do this because Tunney's firm was already connected with a KGB agent in France named David Karr. This document was found by the knowledgeable Russian journalist Yevgenia Albats and published in Moscow's Izvestia in June 1992.

Another KGB report to their bosses revealed that on March 5, 1980, John Tunney met with the KGB in Moscow on behalf of Sen. Kennedy. Tunney expressed Kennedy's opinion that "nonsense about 'the Soviet military threat' and Soviet ambitions for military expansion in the Persian Gulf. . .was being fueled by [President Jimmy] Carter, [National Security Advisor Zbigniew] Brzezinski, the Pentagon and the military industrial complex.". . .

In May 1983, the KGB again reported to their bosses on a discussion in Moscow with former Sen. John Tunney. Kennedy had instructed Tunney, according to the KGB, to carry a message to Yuri Andropov, the General Secretary of the Soviet Communist Party, expressing Kennedy's concern about the anti-Soviet activities of President Ronald Reagan. The KGB reported "in Kennedy's opinion the opposition to Reagan remains weak. Speeches of the President's opponents are not well-coordinated and not effective enough, and Reagan has the chance to use successful counterpropaganda." Kennedy offered to "undertake some additional steps to counter the militaristic, policy of Reagan and his campaign of psychological pressure on the American population." Kennedy asked for a meeting with Andropov for the purpose of "arming himself with the Soviet leader's explanations of arms control policy so he can use them later for more convincing speeches in the U.S."

John Kerry meets with enemy agents (as a private citizen)in Paris, while the same enemy is killing American soldiers in Vietnam. American leftists care so little that he is nominated to be President of the US.

Sen Rockefeller (Sen Intel Committee)
" SEN. ROCKEFELLER: No. The — I mean, this question is asked a thousand times and I'll be happy to answer it a thousand times. I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq — that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11.

While Democrats in Washington are berating the White House for having prewar intelligence wrong, a high-profile U.S. senator, member of the Select Committee on Intelligence, who has a name more internationally recognizable than Richard Cheney's, tells two putative allies (Saudi Arabia and Jordan) and an enemy who is allied with Saddam Hussein (Syria) that the United States was going to war with Iraq. This is not a prewar intelligence mistake, it is a prewar intelligence giveaway.

Syria is not only on the list of state sponsors of terrorism and the country many speculate is where Hussein has secreted weapons, it is also the country from which terrorists are flowing into Iraq to fight our troops and allies.

Link

I don't think we can just keep getting rid of the Republican bad apples while the Democrats only get rid of those who don't
follow the Party line like Sen Lieberman. I agree we need to get rid of our bad apples. I just think we have to get the Democrats thrown out too. Otherwise our nation just ends up with a barrel of bad apples.

Get rid of theirs with the ballot box.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Reps. Kennedy and Jackson (LA).

The code for this sort of thing isn't exactly rocket science. Closeted men have been doing this sort of thing for centuries, and learning how it works doesn't take long. As far as how he'd know which bathroom to go to at MSP airport, there is at least one website out there, known both to cops and cruisers, that would spell it out. I'd put up URL but it's no doubt against the RS rules.

I'm assuming he was flying from Boise to Washington after the weekend recess that week, connecting in Minneapolis where Northwest has its hub. The 11th was a Monday, before any votes were taken (he was back in D.C. on the 12th and voting).

The sooner, the better.

...and former Gov. Risch is eyeing the seat. At least Idaho is a safe seat for the GOP.

I'll give the Senator the benefit of the doubt, but the facts certainly don't look good. This is a shame.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

It's the infinite amounts of bad press elsewhere. Craig needs to be long gone so we can limit the damage.

.....Mark Foley was involved in stuff that was FAR worse than this, and his last minute replacement almost won the seat. It will probably go GOP next year.

Craig is most likely history and another Republican will run and win in 2008. By the end of this year, Larry Craig will be but a memory.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

Foley didn't just cost us his seat, but probably 10-20 house seats and the Senate. The story was held to be the "October Surprise" of 2006, and the constant coverage over the weeks until the election was used as a great backdrop for America's Mother in Law to beat her "Most Ethical Congress in History" (unkept) promise drum.

Would this cause a Dem to resign? Heck no. He'd move up in seniority. But we don't play in a fair world. Craig needs to go.

But at the presser to announce his resignation, he needs to call on Reid and Feinstein to resign for thier ethical lapses, too. That's how you frame an argument.

"Foley didn't just cost us his seat, but probably 10-20 house seats and the Senate."

Bingo. I'm half angry this didn't come out at the time, and half glad that it's now instead of 2008.

The loss has been attributed to approximately 10,000 other things as well. I certainly would not rack up that kind of tally based on Foley. It probably also helped us in some cases, where the Democrats way overplayed their hand. Wetterling was attacking Bachmann on this issue in attack ads. I think that hurt Wetterling a whole lot more than Bachmann.
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

give the "benefit of the doubt".
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

inhabit the halls of government. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. These collective jerks don't make a career out of "public service" for the salary. It's the perqs and the under-the-table money. Just ask John Murtha.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

it's O.K. to use the term "collective jerks" in this thread.

But otherwise, you're absolutely right.

to give him the benefit of the doubt. HE PLEADED GUILTY.

Hmm by Mayhem

I was making a similar point the other day on a different thread. I think 2006 showed us how bad things are in our party. So I don't necessarily think we have seen the end of the "flushing" quite yet. I'm in no way advocating a Democratic majority, but if we have to kick somemore butts in our own party just one more election, to rid it of sickos and criminals, so be it.

It's sad we even need to have discussions like this. Ugh.

Voted YES on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006 )

Voted NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)

Voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)

Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)

Voted NO on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)

This guy wears self-hate like a bad cologne!

1. Opposition to same-sex marriage doesn't not equal opposition to homosexuals.
2. Hate-crimes, did Craig vote against other hate crimes legislation?
3. You wear the troll hat poorly.
___________________________________
The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

The guy should resign already. What a freakin embarrassment to his family and his state and our party. I mean do we have to start policing our Sens and Reps to make sure they're not playing footsie in airport stalls. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Allan Bartlett

Powder Blue Report

Craig should be shown the door, and so should Ted Stevens. Let Republican governors name their replacements, and we can get a head start on 08.

has not been indicted or convicted of ANYTHING. He's been thoroughly slimed by federal investigators and prosecutors, but there still remains the issue, as is almost always the case in alleged corruption, of causation versus correlation. In a state like Alaska, it would be impossible not to be in volved in legislation that might have some effect, either beneficial or detrimental, on someone with whom you have a personal, political, or business association. I've never been a money player in Alaska politics, but I am on a first name basis with easily three quarters of the elected and appointed officials and major actors on the Republican side and probably a third of the Democrats as well. When I was an appointed official, almost any action I took might well affect someone with whom I had some personal association. The feds seem fixated on these personal associations here; we'll see how many convictions they get.

That said, there have been some bad things done here, and some people are going to jail, as they should. If the political cohort of ANY other state were subjected to the same scrutiny, the same result would obtain.

The feds seem to be taking their sweet time with their investigation of both Stevens and Young, a fact that will keep them under a cloud going into '08 and possibly have them under indictment going into the election. Both face the most credible D opposition they've had in many years and an indictment would likely be fatal to either of them. An acquittal after the election would be cold comfort. If there were any adult supervision in the Administration, there'd be some pressure on USDOJ to get a move on, but that seems unlikely to happen. You'd think a Republican Administration would have at least a little interest in corruption in some of the more notorious Democrat states.

In Vino Veritas

a slime job, I have to agree with the Oakster for other reasons. I know from your past posts that he is in line with typical Alaskan politicians on the pork front, but if Republicans are to take back congress in the foreseeable future, people like him can't be running the appropriations committee. It reflects badly on the party nationally.

"Craig should be shown the door, and so should Ted Stevens. Let Republican governors name their replacements, and we can get a head start on 08."

But not David Vitter, whose replacement would be a Democrat.

You're not going to have your kid accidentally bumping into Vitter as he was doing whatever he did unlike what was alleged with Craig. And if Stevens is shown to have been a crook then he needs to go to. No criminal charges are involved with Vitter, though perhaps some could have been filed.

This kinda thing makes me want to break the RedState profanity policy.

Craig needs to go. Now.

Sen Larry Craig of Idaho has announced he will be swishing his party affiliation to Democrat!

No, that was NOT a Freudian slip!

Unless the Big Tent is big enough for openly gay Senators, it'll have a Big Closet too.

I heard a 'blip' on CNN about this but wasn't paying too much attention. Here is the newspaper story link:
http://www.idahostatesman.com/eyepiece/story/143517.html

Well I'm royally ripped on this one. I think he should immediately be removed from the Senate and drummed out of the Republican Party for abusing the trust of the country. Period.

Not for being gay of course, but for being a public pervert. A US Senator soliciting anonymous sex in a public restroom in an airport? Where is the party leadership? Why are we tolerating this? He should not be given an opportunity to resign -- this occured in June, so he's obviously not planning to take that route.

Fire the son of a gun forthwith. Have we really sunk so far as a party that we will tolerate this kind of action in one of our "leaders"?

I mean there are a few serving that haven't come out yet. Should they resign? Be outed? What? Why can't Larry hand around? He didn't do anything horribly wrong --- no dead chicks were found in his offices or anything. He didn't corrupt our system by taking bribes for votes.

So, are you saying that soliciting sex in a men's room is expected and acceptable behavior for a Senator, if he's gay?

-
NARF

Read my post. I don't care if he is attracted to kangaroos behind closed doors. As long as he isn't cruising public restrooms looking for anonymous sex with them illegally.

Here's your clue: "Not for being gay of course, but for being a public pervert."

To use the Clinton analogy, it wasn't the bj, it was that he lied about it under oath. Well for Craig it wasn't his sexual persuasion but the fact that he had such an incredible lapse of judgement and control that he was busted cruising a public restroom for sex. You want someone like that in the Senate? Only the Democrats should be able to answer "yes".

Lying about sex while republican.

" in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."
Abe Lincoln

Thats seems to work for the rest of the boys. She is a dependable beard, no?

... these things.

Forgive us if we got fooled along with the rest of Idahoans and we're not celebrating it. But we're Republicans.

It may be hard to understand for a Democrat, but when a man solicits sex in a public bathroom (with a male, female or hermaphrodite) we don't think it is brave or daring and congratulate him like y'all do.

George W. Bush: He's A Folder ... Not A Fighter.

I understand this is your main issue. To me we can never have meen "good enough" or "pious enough" to fix the problem. Men are sinners, that is what history has taught me, that will not change.

What we need are men that want to REDUCE the influence of government. Do you not see how if their influence in our lives is reduced, the peccadillos will have less of a damaging effect?

We could replace the entire Senate with the cast of the 700 channel and still this stuff would happen. The key is to reduce government intrusion, corruption, and waste.

Molon Labe!

This is a fascinating article in today's Idaho Statesman they must have been waiting to run for a time like this, with the results of a previously undisclosed interview the senator had with the newspaper about past accusations of public sex and cruising:

I don't see how we can "clean house" when people as prominent and important in the Republican Party as Larry Craig are obviously bound and determined to go on living double lives. Setting aside everything else in this story, at the root of this is the fact that Craig (and presumably others in the Republican Party) have had long careers as Republicans while living double lives, fooling everyone. Unless this behavior is something he picked up recently, he's been in the Senate for almost two decades and until now, there's been nothing said about it.

I don't see how you can "clean house" when powerful people like Senators are absolutely determined to lie and live double lives. Aside from calling for a round of vicious skeleton-cleaning and closet-sweeping, which I'm sure would be politically brutal and personally abhorrent, I don't see what we can do about it except resign ourselves to the fact that every so often one of them is going to screw up and get caught, usually at the worst possible moment.

I especially don't hold out much hope for a thorough house-cleaning when so much of modern politics is so akin to acting and relies on establishing cults of personality in order to get candidates elected. I don't think it's wildly off the mark to say that a lot of the people who are drawn to high-profile politics choose to be in politics because it fits their personality in that regard.

Look at three prominent Republicans: Ronald Reagan -- actor turned Governor. Arnold Schwarzenneger -- ditto. Fred Thompson -- senator turned actor turned Presidential candidate.

Let's face it: a lot of success in political life is directly attributable to people who possess the kind of personality needed to put on a good show for the public and portray themselves as the kind of people various segments of the population wish to anoint as their leaders.

I'm afraid that means we're always going to have these kinds of surprises. Creative, determined, ambitious people -- the kind with the ego and the sense of mission to run for high elected office -- are very often pretty bizarre. I don't know how to get around that problem. Politics would be so boring!

;)

I have low expectations for the personal behavior of politicians basically for the reasons you mention. Political motivation and the process of getting elected favors people who are self-absorbed, power hungry, manipulative, and liars. For this reason, I do not think politicians should be seen as role models, just as people necessary to actually do the work of government. I don't bother getting outraged at people like Senator Craig, Senator Vitter, or the many others who haven't been caught. It's just a distasteful but inevitable part of politics. I save my outrage for those who abuse the power and trust of their office, such as Rep. Jefferson and (allegedly) Senator Stevens.

For further proof of this conjecture, just look at Barack Obama: here's a guy who was less than a nobody in national politics six years ago, who was hoisted into the U.S. Senate after a horrendous flameout by the Republicans in Illinois on the backs of the liberal intellectuals in the Illinois Democratic Party. He can't talk much about his record in the Illinois legislature, he can't rely much on his record in the U.S. Senate, and he doesn't want to get slapped around too much by the other candidates opposing him, so what is going on?

His handlers and his tinseltown advisors are *constructing* a public image of President Barack Obama from *scratch*. He's the Plastic Candidate, literally a lump of clay in the hands of Steven Spielberg, David Geffen and Jeffrey Katzenberg, who have all signed on to his campaign in order to literally *manufacture* a Barack Obama, President of the United States in the next 14 months. The time required to construct this image is one of the main reasons he started campaigning so early and why he's being so careful: he wants people to elect the image he's creating for himself. Lots of powerful people have their money and time invested in creating that character.

had he faced a real opponent in his first senate race.

" in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."
Abe Lincoln

I doubt it. The story of how Barack Obama made it to the U.S. Senate (and the Presidency, if he wins) is going to be a rich subject of investigation for presidential historians and political scientists the world over. The Republicans in Illinois were so shattered after the front-page revelations that Jack Ryan was an S&M sex club dilettante that they had to try to draft Mike Ditka, and then finally shanghaied Alan Keyes (who accept the invitation reluctuantly and under considerable duress.) Their next choice, if Keyes had turned them down, was rumored to be Joey D'Auria, who played Bozo the Clown on Superstation WGN in Chicago from 1984-2001.

That's how bad it was.

by the way...I think JR would have mixed it up pretty well with BO...JR was pretty good..and by the way, his ex WANTED to go to the club, and came out in support of JR (I wish she had sisters!)

Nobody has bloodied BO's nose, no shots have ever landed on the chin...time will tell

" in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."
Abe Lincoln

While Ryan would have made it a race, no one was going to beat Obama in that Senate race. I lived in Illinois and the guy was treated like the second coming. Illinois is always a sucker for media darlings.

Here's Info

"Because Obama was running against Blair Hull in the primary and then Jack Ryan in the general (both multi-millionaires), Obama could, and did, receive especially large donations from individuals, to so-called "millionaires exception." Normally individuals are limited to giving $2300 to candidates in federal elections, but when candidates are running against millionaires, these limits are lifted and candidates are allowed to receive up to $12,000 from a single individual. Soros and his family gave Barack Obama $60,000. This does not include money that Soros was able to funnel to so-called 527 groups (Moveon.org, for example) that have also been politically active; nor does it include money that Soros was able to raise from tapping a network of friends, business associates, and employees.

After taking advantage of the special freedom to raise large amounts of money from influential individuals, and as the campaigns entered their closing rounds, news was leaked to media outlets that both Hull and Ryan had personal scandals associated with them. The release of this news devastated both of their campaigns, leading to an easy run to victory for Obama in the primary and then in the general election. The New York Times Magazine revealed earlier in the year that David Axelrod, Obama's chief political and media adviser, may well have been behind the leak of the story that doomed the Hull candidacy as the primary reached its home stretch."

More and more when you see Democrats gaining ground, you can trace the
money to the same individual and his friends. Plus the dirty
politics that always come along with it.

I was in Chicago at the tail end of Obama's almost unprecedented debut and this statement certainly rings true to me today:

Obama has strong support from Chicago’s Jewish Democratic establishment, which is solidly backing him over Clinton, according to several Democratic insiders.

“It looks like everyone with any degree of Democratic/liberal leaning who is prominent in [Chicago] politics seems to be on Barack’s side,” said Jack Levin, a prominent Chicago lawyer who came to know Obama when they both taught at the University of Chicago Law School.
...
Other Jewish supporters in Chicago include Obama’s national finance chair, business mogul Penny Pritzker, a major Democratic donor and fundraiser whose family founded Hyatt Hotels ; Joan Harris, a leading Chicago philanthropist whose late husband, Irving Harris, served as chairman of the Liberty Acorn mutual fund, and billionaire financier Lester Crown, a top supporter and a leader of the city’s Jewish federation.

“He’s beloved [by the Chicago Jewish community]. I can’t tell you the passion that’s behind it,” said Anne Wedner, an Aipac supporter who spearheaded a get-out-the-vote effort during Obama’s 2004 Senate primary campaign.

It was kind of a running joke between me and several of my friends at the time that when it came to a lot of the law professors I knew, you didn't have to ask who their choice for the U.S. Senate (and then the Presidency in 2008 or 2012) was going to be. Even at that early date in 2002-3, it was a foregone conclusion for many of them.

that you can't have actually done anything and get elected or appointed or do anything and be popular once elected or appointed.

In Vino Veritas

to save us on Craig unlike what Montana did. Therefore, in a solidly conservative state, we get at least six years of Testor.

Please, Idahoans, pressure Craig into resigning.

Does anyone know the policy for replacing a sitting Senator from Idaho especially when the governor has said he is interested in the job himself?

Oz

www.first-cut-politics.blospot.com

I don't think Idaho's governor, Butch Otter (I can already hear Jon Stewart et al having a field day with that name) is interested in the job. He only just took office in January of this year. If Craig resigns (my bet is that it happens before the week is out), Otter, a Republican, appoints a successor who serves until Craig's term would have ended, in January 2009.

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The real reason was so that stupid people like you could ask these questions after being here for 32 minutes. Don't you see?

Blam, someone. Please.

you're not the only person who can post the same stuff twice

James Hansen - Scott THomas Beauchamp with a PhD.

"I think I'm in love with a retard."
"Is he bigger than me?"

that the only place this man can "be himself" is in a bathroom stall.

It's sad when you really look at it. There's something more to this than people's immediate anger should make them realize. It's not a very good way to have to live life. It certainly can't be very joyous, really.

On the other hand he's had a long time to confront it and never did. He's not a child and he has to handle it now. He can't expect to be the same politician people thought they elected.

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We are all heroes, you and Boo and I. Hamsters and rangers everywhere, rejoice!

It's no wonder people don't take these social conservative's seriously.

1. they have an alarmingly high percentage of people practicing exactly what they preach against.

2. They often preach about items that are none of their business to begin with.

When you go around telling other people how they should live their life it shows a tremendous amount of arrogance.

Couple that with the fact that many of these holier than thou judgemental types are often nothing more than charletans.

The conservative movement is a joke.

at four hours...only because most of the monitors have other jobs!

they have an alarmingly high percentage of people practicing exactly what they preach against.

Go read Romans 7 and get back to me.

___________________________________
The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

The conservative movement is a glass house full of hypocrites throwing stones.

They are becoming more irrelevent every day.

I don't know why anyone would take them seriously.

Go back to your own pit of racist and homosexual demagougery. We in the civilized world have no tolerance for your evil.

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Because you didn't read it the first time I suggested it.

Retard.

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The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

Why would I care what Romans 7 says?

Another conservative hypocrite is caught living the lifestyle he condemns others for.

What's new?

And makes you looks like an idiot for not doing so (handy link for you). But hey keep it up. It's fun for us to play with stupid trolls like you before you get the Blam.

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The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

If you were in any way looking for an honest discussion, Romans 7 would be exactly the first place to go. It's a discussion of the Christian's struggle with sin, analyzing specifically the disconnect between will and action. It's the Christian response to the hypocrisy you point out; if you wanted to understand a social conservate's take on hypocrisy you'd start there.

But you're not here for discourse, understanding, communication, or even debate. You're here to hit us over the head with your moral judgments that we shouldn't be making moral judgments. Hypocrite, reveal thyself.

-
NARF

There's a difference between making moral judgements and angrily condemning those they differ from your view.

Like I said. If conservatives weren't so over the top with their condemnation of others they'd probably convince more people.

You're free to preach but don't be surprised when people tune you out.

There's a difference between making moral judgements and angrily condemning those they differ from your view

Aaaaaaaannnnd the backtrack continues!

___________________________________
The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

There's a difference between making moral judgements and angrily condemning those they differ from your view.

So which is this:

"When you go around telling other people how they should live their life it shows a tremendous amount of arrogance."

-
NARF

he can't read it...he doesn't read Latin!

he's not going to understand it :)

___________________________________
The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

Ah more finger pointing holier than thou ranting.

I think the conservative movement would be better served if they tried to lead by example.

Instead they come across as angry preachers who are pent up.

I think if conservatives were more friendly, happy and caring people they'd have a better chance at furthering their agenda.

Instead many see them as angry finger pointing hypocrites.

lest you be thought of as a hypocrite.

Ah more finger pointing holier than thou ranting. You come across as an angry preacher who is pent up. If you were more friendly, happy and caring you'd have a better chance at furthering your agenda.

Everyone sees you as an angry finger pointing hypocrite.

This is fun :)

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The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

If you think that, feel free to leave. Its not like we're just begging for your company.

We so rarely get to play with them before the Blam :)

He's preaching to others that they shouldn't preach, calling them hypocrites - this is absolutely hilarious. I'm sure it'll get old soon enough and Thomas or Moe will come lower the boom on him and he'll run back to Kos and brag about his time.

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The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

Show me where I said you shouldn't preach?

"They often preach about items that are none of their business to begin with."

Or was that not you, up at the start, preaching about what social conservatives should preach about?

-
NARF

Pretty funny

so you take

"They often preach about items that are none of their business to begin with"

as saying

"this is what conservatives should preach about."

interesting take.... hmm.

Full steam ahead!!!!

___________________________________
The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

apparently you guys are.

Have I said that liberals are all happy and friendly?

Again, if you can't attack someone's argument just make up another one and attack that.

convenient.

Conservatives are Happier than Liberals!
A survey by the Pew Research Center shows that conservatives are happier than liberals -- in all income groups. While 34 percent of all Americans call themselves "very happy," only 28 percent of liberal Democrats (and 31 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats) do, compared with 47 percent of conservative Republicans. This finding is niftily self-reinforcing: It depresses liberals.

But then, you KNEW you were unhappy! Now you know why!

____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

"When you go around telling other people how they should live their life it shows a tremendous amount of arrogance."

Aren't you posting on this site to tell others that they should abstain from "preaching" about issues of personal morality? Isn't that telling others how they should live their lives? Does that make you tremendously arrogant?

It's freedom of speach.

I never said you should abstain from preaching.

Don't be surprised if people ignore you though.

It's not "freedom of speech" this is not a public website, it is privately owned.

Troll on.

___________________________________
The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

If Craig buys some carbon credits, might that make him less of a hypocrite?

And please, don't tell me how I have to live my life to "save the planet" from global warming.

Looks like you come from a glass house.

Simony is a sin.

James Hansen - Scott THomas Beauchamp with a PhD.

Where did I say you should abstain from preaching?

I said don't act surprise when people don't take you seriously.

Generally when you are an angry finger pointing movement and many of your members are guilty of the exact things you preach against you aren't going to win many converts.

Now that your argument is shown to be bunk, you back-track.... You're new to this trolling thing, eh? You're supposed to forge ahead, no matter how stupid your argument is!

To quote someone that you ignored:

If you were in any way looking for an honest discussion, Romans 7 would be exactly the first place to go. It's a discussion of the Christian's struggle with sin, analyzing specifically the disconnect between will and action. It's the Christian response to the hypocrisy you point out; if you wanted to understand a social conservatives take on hypocrisy you'd start there.

But you're not here for discourse, understanding, communication, or even debate. You're here to hit us over the head with your moral judgments that we shouldn't be making moral judgments. Hypocrite, reveal thyself.

___________________________________
The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

And which argument would that be??

When you can't win an argument create a false argument and attack that?

I am here for discourse. I understand there is a conservative movemnet in this country.

You've got Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coultiers etc. etc. etc..

What I'm curious about is why do you think anyone would want to follow people like that as a guide for how to live their life.

I'm assuming the purpose of the movement is to lead the country to follow conservative principles.

But who would want to follow you if you bash those that have a different view on life?

If you come across as angry and arrogant?

If many of your leaders are shown to be charletans?

Seems like reasonable questions to me.

First:
I am here for discourse.

I don't believe you, otherwise, you would have looked up Romans 7, read it, and applied it to the situation. It would have answered a lot of the questions for you. You'd rather troll.

What I'm curious about is why do you think anyone would want to follow people like that as a guide for how to live their life.

If you would have read Romans 7, you would have known. I'll give you a hint: we're human, we know what is right and yet we do what is wrong. Unless you've never told a lie, never stolen anything (and that means anything), etc. Are you perfect? No, well I guess you can't tell anyone else to try and live up to a standard.

But who would want to follow you if you bash those that have a different view on life?

We don't tolerate bigots on this site (yes, I'm also talking about you). To answer your question though, this strawman you concocted doesn't apply (being opposed to gay marriage doesn't mean you're opposed to gays, being against hate crimes legislation isn't proof of hating anyone).

Troll on brother!

__________________________________
The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

I agree, being against something does not mean that you have hatred or anger towards the people that practice it.

I agree with that statement.

But what I don't agree with is that much of the conservative movement does not practice hatred and exhibit anger towards those who they disagree with.

There are certainly conservatives who feel a certain way, try and explain their opinion and try and convince people why they should buy into their opinion.

And than there are the real vocal, in your face, condemning conservatives that seem to be the fashion these days.

I hardly think that style will win over many converts.

Troll on.

Ok, I'm bored with him now. He's not even a good troll.

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The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

Step back for a second and read your initial post here. Then consider whether you've been one of those people "who feel a certain way, try and explain their opinion and try and convince people why they should buy into their opinion", or are better described as "real vocal, in your face, condemning". Ask yourself whether your style is apt to win over any converts.

-
NARF

and see what answer you get, since they apply to the majority of the Democrat party (bashing those with a different view on life, angry & arrogant, charlatans, etc.) See if your fellow KosKidz think they're reasonable when applied to Hillary, John Edwards, Barack, Dick Durbin, Harry Reid, [fill-in-the-blank-lefty-pol]


...when they see me they'll say, "There goes Loren Wallace,
the greatest thing to ever climb into a race car."

Did I say I was a liberal??

You aren't a liberal, you're more conservative than all of us put together. That's why you support Dr. Paul!
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

is to demonstrate that you are intolerant, you are quite open about your ability to hate groups of people who you disagree with, you can't spell, your punctuation and grammar are limited, and your ability to present a cogent argument is non-existent. For starters.

Thus, some folk would draw the reasonable conclusion that you are a "progressive", "liberal" being a term that's both out of favor with the left and doesn't really apply to today's leftists in it's classical definition.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

So you resort to attacking my grammar?

geez, talk about grabbing at straws.

What's with people on this site and shifting the argument?

My argument is that much of the conservative movement is based on angry finger pointers. People that often turn out to be engaging in the exact behavior that they blast others for.

You have your Rush Limbaugh's, your Anne Coulters etc. etc.

I've asked why would anyone want to follow their lead and live like them?

Are they supposed to represent some attractive ideal for people? "Hey, I want to be like them!!"

By the way, the latest is that conservative poster boy Senator Craig just gave a press conference.

Apparently it's now the liberal media's fault.

for someone who opened his RedState account by walking into the house and pissing on the carpets. The owners tend to not like that, by the way - and plenty of them would hardly consider themselves "conservatives". Just saying.

So we get it - you don't much like "conservatives". You apparently don't much care for "our" "Rush Limbaugh's, Anne Coulters etc. etc." Good for you - you are hardly alone. There are, in fact, entire websites dedicated to mocking conservatives. I suspect you'll fit in quite well there once one of the Directors takes the couple of seconds out of their busy day required to vaporize your account.

Ta. You won't be missed.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

Suspend my account? For what? asking a couple of questions that people don't want to answer?

dialog. Which is why I'm avoiding you. You don't give a tinkers dam about issues or anything that doesn't fit into your little box. You decide you can come in here toss crap around in the form of "questions" and we'll let you get away with it. Think again, stupid.

You can leave now. And we don't care if you tell your parents and your friends that you drove us crazy with your intelligence. They'll smile and shake their heads. And laugh after you leave. Just like we'll do.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

You have your Rush Limbaugh's, your Anne Coulters etc. etc.

I've asked why would anyone want to follow their lead and live like them?

Seems like a reasonable enough question to me.

Are those not spokespeople for the conservative movement?

Do they seem like the type to win over converts and is it working?

As for my little box. You barely know me so how could you possibly know my views?

but now I know you're a particularly stupid troll. You are in here to do nothing more than stir things up. Your "views" are apparent from posting #84 and others. You have no interest in questions, based upon that entry alone. You dropped your turd on the floor and thought you were being cute and clever.

Now, next time you want to use the computer, you'd better ask your mom's permission, because it's obvious you can't be trusted with it. Run along and watch SpongeBob now...


...when they see me they'll say, "There goes Loren Wallace,
the greatest thing to ever climb into a race car."

" They'll smile and shake their heads. And laugh after you leave."

There shouldn't be a period after heads.

I just thought I'd mention since you seemed to be concerned with grammar.

I guess where I am lost here is what your definition of a conservative is. Sorry, the Christian Right may be socially on the intolerant side, but a TRUE CONSERVATIVE simply means taking a conservative approach to governing. Less instrusive, no cradle-to-grave handouts, allowing the populace to be accountable for their own actions. As for the senator, I dont think of him as a hypocrite, only as an embarassment to his state, to his family, and of course to our US institution. So your calling conservatism "dead" or whatever analogy you used is not true at all. Many people, myself included: and I live in a blue state, want LESS government, less taxes, and I would prefer they stay out of our personal lives altogether. In its' truest sense, conservatism is alive and well....but if it was ever on its' last legs, I promise you will not write the eulogy.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

-----------
We are all heroes, you and Boo and I. Hamsters and rangers everywhere, rejoice!

Eating thread is bad for the intestines. He'll get his in the end.

James Hansen - Scott THomas Beauchamp with a PhD.

I can safely say that I have never even considered tapping the foot of someone in the stall next to me or reaching my hand over there.

He can play defense all he wants, but whatever he was doing, it wasn't conduct that we should see from a senator.

Oz

www.first-cut-politics.blospot.com

That was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read his denial... even if you take his version as the gospel truth his actions are more than a little bizarre. I can't think of anything I own that I would grope around in an occupied stall for. If it was something absolutely critical like my passport I'd ask the other person to kick it back over to me.

Just. Not. Done.

"Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it." --- Mark Twain.

That way he can still live a sex-neutral lifestyle.

h/t Glenn

___________________________________
The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson

As a lifelong resident of Idaho I can assure you all that people who follow politics closely in this state are not suprised by the Larry Craig incident. It will make no difference in the Senatorial race in 08, but it might have an impact on the fate of District One's first term congressman Bill Sali. I've read postings here off and on for quite awhile, but never felt compelled to post. Idaho is a cautionary tale. Be careful what you ask for; you just might get it. We are a one-party state, and the downside of that is weak candidates, and a complete lack of public and civil debate on any issue whatsoever. Bill Sali is an excellent example of this. He won a Republican primary with 9 candidates, and did so by being the most provocative and ridiculous in his rhetoric. When he served in the Idaho House (90+% Republican at the time) he was stripped of all committee assignments because Republican leadership loathed him. His greatest moment came on the floor of the Idaho House when he lectured a Democratic representative (a breast cancer survivor) who was advocating for some sort of women's health issue, about his assertion that abortions cause breast cancer. He made her cry, the House errupted in outrage and the Speaker had to clear the House, The Speaker called Sali a "f*****g idiot" and told the press to quote him. Second disctict congressman Mike Simpson once threatened to throw Sali out of the 3rd floor window of the
Statehouse. In 06 the Dems ran an excellent candidate against Sali who came pretty close to beating him. If Republicans take Sali's seat for granted and don't try to defeat him in the Primary, they just might lose that seat. As a Conservative, I did not vote for Sali the last time and I won't vote for him again. Party politics does not trump decency, common sense or competence.

Seriously, this is between Craig and his wife. Hope he is able to straighten it out.

I don't see anyone demanding Vitter to resign for doing more than this.

That changes the credibility level of the accusation.

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