Let's Liveblog this Debate
By Mark Kilmer Posted in Republicans — Comments (373) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
There are 10 of them there, all from various tiers. Fred and Newt are not.
Brit Hume is moderating for the FOX News Channel, host of the debate.
Let's go...
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At the campaign site...
http://sambrownback.goingon.com
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[F]or by the fundamental law of Nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred...
-John Locke
Does Tommy have neck under all the chin spilling out on his collar?
That's right Rudy, Senator McCain is correct.
If I just heard him right, he said the Dems and GOP are *both* wrong on handling terrorists.
He's sharp tonight. Different person from the first debate.
Erick, he did say both R's and D's have it wrong... Interesting... Interesting...
Then calls Iraq a quagmire. Invokes Reagan for retreat
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Ron Paul just used the retreat from Lebanon as an example of what we should do in Iraq, invoking Ronald Reagan. Wake me up when my head stops spinning.
he is through. It is very sad he is the "libertarian" of the group. This guy is an isolationist pacifist, not a "small government" guy.
Molon Labe!
And FWIW, the Libertarian Party is avowedly isolationist. It's part of the big L Libertarian philosophy.
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Bobby Jindal Saves Louisiana
I'm convinced that Duncan Hunter is running for Defense Secretary.
On of us is going to be Commander in Chief in JUST A FEW MONTHS????????????
'cept Paul, who's improperly quoting Reagan.
Ron, Beirut in ;83 is not Baghdad in '07.
deflects to generals.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
This is such a better format and smoother debate than the one that was on MSNBC.
Its multiple choice Mitt
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
(Posted on the wrong thread earlier)
Everybody looks good.
Foxnews destroys MSNBC
Tancredo learned English
And that has to be a good sign for his supporters. The first debate, the guy sounded like someone who had a really bad corn on his foot.
Fair tax is the most unrealistic political idea... A realistic and quickly implementable tax reform proposal is the flat tax.
And yes, Huckabee, Senator McCain is right!
It maintains a semblance of progressive tax code, which is the only way half (or more) of this country will support it, yet is FAR cleaner than the current tax code. Additionally, states are going the way of the sales tax over income tax, so the momentum already exists.
Income taxes are by definition more "progressive" than sales taxes.
The Flat Tax is the best, most pragmatic way to move forward on real tax REFORM. Every time I hear about another targeted tax cut, I want to vomit.
without fundamental changes to monetary policy and spending. It's just a gesture in the bigger economic picture without these other changes.
Too bad Ron paul is the only one who thinks that on that stage.
_Don't tread on me._
Where is Jim Gilmore?
Huckabee... "John Edwards at a beauty shop!"
Brings the house down. Awesome. You win.
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Fred...Fred...Fred..!
Is Rudy reading his answers off of cue cards or something?
Huckabee: "Congress is spending like John Edwards at a beauty shop".... I like the guy already!
This is great so far... Republicans proposing ideas- not attacking each other but taking short shots at the Democrats (always gets the base revved up)
So is criticizing congress.
Giuliani running on cutting spending and lowering taxes in NYC. Invokes Reagan for budget cuts. Wants to attrit federal employees
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
The first snake-oil of the 21st Century.
I think Huckabee and the crowb are pandering off each other. People of SC, I know he's a Baptist minister, but he's not that funny.
Three federal programs you would elminiate. If *anyone* can't come up with them, they all deserve to lose.
Wants to actually reduce spending
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Opportunistic? Yes. Incorrect? No. Tossing whole federal departments into the memory hole sounds good to me. The only sad thing is that Ron Paul is saying it. How awful that we have the wrong people saying the right things.
I like Ron Paul. He's my pick. I simply agree with his basic premise on the domestic and foreign fronts with little problem.
his constitutional vision is a breath of fresh air.
_Don't tread on me._
so I hope at least *you* like Ron Paul the best.
Romney or Fred.
Currently writing non-political stories over at first-cut-stories.blogspot.com
Just took a shot at unnamed folks and didn't man up, that was week.
"Cowards cut and run, Marines never do"
Not answering the question about whether he would reduce benefits.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Gilmore pulls a gimmick and doesn't follow up... That's weak... I hope no one falls for that junk... If you're going to bring it up have the guts to follow through...
I can't wait to hear the economists here at RedState parse this response.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
One of the major reasons I'm a Republican is because most Democrats don't seem to understand economics (or refuse to). It's unsettling to see certain Republicans trying to follow suit.
From his statements tonight, Hunter is as economically liberal as Giuliani is socially liberal.
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Bobby Jindal Saves Louisiana
Debate looks pretty even. All llok good. Real Headline:
Foxnews blows away chrissy mathews and MSNBC. Bush league versus pros. This is what happens when you let adults run things.
Why does it seem like he's angling for unions? Just me?
"Cowards cut and run, Marines never do"
The moderators are doing a great job of setting up questions and responding with rapid fire questions half way through:
Example: I was really impressed by Ron Paul's take on "changing our attitude toward government" ...
response question: "you would eliminate the Department of Homeland Security at a time of war?"
Great question... substandard response by Paul- but i think because he was just shocked... but he stuck to his guns and his original point.
We had all the tools we needed to prevent 9/11. The problem was inefficiency and poor coordination between different agencies.
Adding another layer of bureacracy did make things better...only bigger and more bloated.
_Don't tread on me._
Why on earth is he running for president? Talking about non presidential.
Commercials?!?!?!?
For no commercials. Overall that debate was pretty poor, but no interuptions was nice.
"Cowards cut and run, Marines never do"
Otherwise, bathroom breaks become "iffy." Especially since there didn't seem to be any set sequence in which questions were asked (I believe that is another difference from the PMSNBC debate).
“Political Correctness” is just short for “Capitulation to Extortion.”
Big spending republicans.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Democrats are stupid and will lose. We played in their house and faired well. They refuse to play at Fox. Bottom line - we get double exposure plus the Foxnews format makes everybody look better and our guys look good.
Netroots idiots thought they would take down Foxnews. Morons just hurt themselves.
I have to say that one problem with these things as they are right now is that we can't get answers from everyone. Which is why I still believe in my Southern Comfort theory. I would have loved to hear McCain answer the "which three federal programs would you eliminate" question. Romney, too.
This format just doesn't allow for measured responses. That's my worry.
Why doesn't he name name's, thats quite cowardly. Nice job Mr. Wallace, pin him down.
"Cowards cut and run, Marines never do"
Gilmore seems shocked he got called on his rhetoric...
Gilmore isn't even a blip in the polls... What's up with this?
He will need more time for the answer.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
And Rudy is ducking the question. He's missing the point. He's walking away from it. He's trying to avoid it. He can't answer it. He's lying.
Interesting that he doesn't even respond on the abortion issue... He's pro-choice by the way.
Rudy just got NAILED on abortion. He's fumbling his response. Ouch.
Wallace: "Mayor Giuliani, I am going to give you another 30 seconds to actually answer my question."
No Rudy, that's not a conservative stance on many issues.
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Fred...Fred...Fred..!
Its that right wing bias, letting Rudy and the rest slide with softball questions, oh wait
"Cowards cut and run, Marines never do"
Rudy still not great, but at least he looks like he tried to prepare this time.
I like Rudy and he had a sweet dodge kudos to wallace for nailing him on it.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
People are looking for a straight talking leader and Rudy just played the role of a typical politician...
Please your reaching across helped put us in the minority.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Transan . . . What did McCain just say or try to say?
"Cowards cut and run, Marines never do"
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Fred...Fred...Fred..!
There we go McCain! Call them like they are... There is John McCain the straight talking leader...
What happened to Tazmanian McCain. I like this guy better, but the other is more entertaining.
Does that have something to do with reaching across the aisle? Or did John McCain just invent that term?
heh, candidates bringing the funny tonight. more importantly, they're bringing the serious and the substantive.
this is a fantastic event. wtg FOX, wtg GOP!
I think there are ten there because it is only May of 07 - let everyone have a voice at this point.
McCain just gave a good response to Wallace's challenge to his conservatism.
He had a good joke on the Democratic Congress' approval rating: "At 28%, they're down to blood relatives and paid staffers."
McCain's slowed down and is doing better this week than two weeks ago.
I support 2nd Am but don't
I support Gays but don't
Give me a break I was in Mass.
I have conservative values but don't implement them
Forgets Republican party founded by radicals.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
What does that mean? What does it mean, Mitt?
Is thompson a doctor or molecular biologist ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Former HEW Secretary, right? I liked T's answers in general. I can see why Bush picked him for a Cabinet position.
That's about his proper level of achievement.
“Political Correctness” is just short for “Capitulation to Extortion.”
Is Multiple Choice Mitt kidding me?
He just said he supported/fought for life in Massachusetts. That is such crap. As a pro-choice governor, he did NOTHING for life.
Huh? Are you serious?
Check out the whole stem cell thing that played out there.
Romney or Fred.
Currently writing non-political stories over at first-cut-stories.blogspot.com
Thompson is grossing me out with his references to "cord blood and amniotic fluid."
Is this his message to get above 1%?
It was a very good answer, and he showed that at the very least he's read some of the literature. It was a complex answer to a complex question, but this format isn't very good at allowing people to make those answers.
About a million miles deep. He's punting the ball.
Why do Republicans continue to pander on this issue. Stem Cells of embryos that ARE GOING TO BE THROWN AWAY offer the potential to end suffering from several diseases and further offer HOPE to those living with cancer and other serious diseases.
If you value life then put your actions where your rhetoric is and protect EMBRYOS from ever being thrown away - EVER.
Stem Cell Research is good and I'm glad that Senator McCain supports it.
It is the embryonic stem cell supporters who are pandering. Left over embryos are a cheap debating tactic. They won't be useful because they don't match the patient's DNA. You can only do that with cloning. It is bate and switch.
The debate is over research. You have to know how the stuff works before you can use it for a good purpose, be that transplants or just understanding genetic disease for other types of treatment. Transplants? When we know enough, we may be able to use umbilical or adult cells, or we may have to make a decision on cloning at that point.
"The partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers of his own assertions." - Plato
Compares slavery to abortion HUH ?
Slavery = Enforcing right to liberty
Won't enforce right to life ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Huckabee just leaped in front of Brownback for my pick for Vice President. I never thought that anyone could tie pro-life and the war in Iraq together but Huckabee just did and that was an EXCELLENT answer.
McCain/Huckabee
Yes, its life we are talking about. Its a child. Will it help the woman. Beautiful.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Here comes the second answer....
All of the people here who are calling him a flipflopper on this issue haven't read enough. He's saying what he's said from the beginning, and what I've said: "It's the people, stupid."
I don't think so.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I'm really impressed with the moderators for calling the candidates out on some of their rhetoric.
Trust conversions on the road to Damascus not DesMoines
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I find it apalling that they did not. Not during the first debate or the second debate so far today.
that slavery question crushed him, Huckabee finished him off
I'm still disapointed that there are no questions in regards to health care. It's one of the most complex and serious issues on the domestic front facing our country.
I hope before the night is over that someone asks something in regards to health care.
We don't "expect you to sit down and work this out together." We expect you to enforce the law. We expect you to not sell the vast majority of Americans down the river because you're a Senator and I'm not.
He said that when referring to abortions.
But does he also hold the liberal view that wiretaps are necessary to prevent terrorism?
There are many tough questions that are not being asked.
"conference calls and meetings but I intend to lead." I intend to lead the phone calls and conference calls and the meetings and the bloviating and the...
Everybody going for cheap laughs and a breakthrough moment, McCain looks very presidential.
On "special pathways" -- he's right. That's one of my biggest objections to McCain/Kennedy. And he takes McCain on directly and gets applause.
You have to love a debate where John McCain gets some kind of credit for calling Mitt Romney a flipflopper. Whew. Anybody see sharks jumping? I see a whole school of them.
Romney throws a left hook at McCain.
John McCain is clearly the most Presidential on the stage tonight.
This is a debate for the highest office of the land, not an audition for Saturday Night Live.
Yes, I laughed at some of the cheap jokes, but this is a serious matter here and serious issues need to be discussed.
Loved McCain's response to Romney!
"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."
McCain just landed a stinging blow to Romney's record of flip-flopping on abortion, immigration, gun rights, etc.
Romney picked on McCain and got SLAMMED.
Round One to McCain.
No No No.
Fence good.
Amnesty for people here no good. Your losing me Rudy.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
He's soft on immigration.
is only step ONE in a TOUGH immigration policy. I'd hate to be an illegal without one after they become mandatory.
Give me a break!
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Fred...Fred...Fred..!
John McCain -- a consistent conservative regardless of the circumstances. That's what America wants and that's what we need.
Multiple Choice Romney has changed his position on almost every position for political expediency and that needs to be revealed to voters.
Before he could be the consistent conservative.
At least Romney is NOW a conservative.
Romney or Fred.
Currently writing non-political stories over at first-cut-stories.blogspot.com
Did he put on his work clothes and get out there and build it? I mean, I don't get it.
Thanks Ron.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Theres the RUDY !!!!
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
"Cowards cut and run, Marines never do"
Comes back again: "We need to understand the irrationality of Middle Eastern Politics."
He wants to listen to the people who attacked us. OK, folks, can we please get him out of the next debate?
Ron Paul just gave Rudy some free money.
If "Multiple Choice Mitt" Romney wants to be POTUS, he better bring it harder than he just did to McCain. He tip-toed around an attack on McCain (as he does on many issues), and McCain responded by returning a stinging (and true) slam on Romney's record.
If Romney wants to play with the big dogs, he better step up.
Romney is like Bush in 2000--not quite ready for the big stage. McCain is like Reagan, Bush Sr, etc--READY NOW.
Everybody wants a piece of him.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
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Fred...Fred...Fred..!
But if Rudy hadn't responded to that response with vigor, I would have written this entire party off right then and there.
www.fairtax.org
Republican Liberty Caucus!!!
www.rlc.org http://www.republicanliberty.org/
When did Osama develop his current hatred for the United States? When he wasn't chosen to eject Saddam from Kuwait... the West (United States) was.
Osama MIGHT'VE been involved in the bombing of the Khobar Towers. He WAS involved with the U.S.S. Cole bombing.
Are Paul's isolationist views helpful in a global war on radical Islamist terrorism? I don't think so. But, if we weren't in the Middle East, I doubt they would be attacking us.
Osama and Co hate all in the West, not just the US, and not just because we liberated Kuwait after Saddam invaded.
If we are to be a country, we will not hide under our beds when our friends and vital interests, which Kuwait was and is, are threatened. Running from trouble only works short term, long term standing up to evil even if it costs you in the end is the only course of action.
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Fred...Fred...Fred..!
BECAUSE of our presence in the holy Arabian Peninsula. When you're talking about Zawahiri, and his more idealogical brethren from the Muslim Brotherhood, sure they've hated the west's dominance since Sayyid Qutb returned from the US in 1950.
I did not say THEY (and Co) hate the US or the west just b/c of Kuwait. BUT, Bin Laden's hatred can DIRECTLY be traced to the Kuwait-Saddam conflict. He felt slighted that he could not bring in the Mujahideen to defend the Kuwaitis against that secular bastard Saddam. There is A LOT of evidence to indicate as much...
But, perhaps you've received more education on terrorism and
Al Qaida from the DOD than me. Maybe.
www.fairtax.org
Sick of Government Expansion? libertarian-Minded Republican? Check This Out... Republican Liberty Caucus!!!
www.rlc.org http://www.republicanliberty.org/
If you look at my last line, you'll see that my view is that Paul's isolationist view is useless, and harmful to the GWOT.
www.fairtax.org
Sick of Government Expansion? libertarian-Minded Republican? Check This Out... Republican Liberty Caucus!!!
www.rlc.org http://www.republicanliberty.org/
Did Osama hate the US when we helped him finance the Afghani resistance to the Sovs? Probably so, but not because we were meddling in Islamic territory. Paul's "blowback" sounds like "Can't we all just get along."
and practitioners call 2nd and 3rd order of effects. It is why we don't bomb mosques even if Zarqawi is hanging out in one with an arsenal. But, he's obviously talking about it on a much larger/strategic scale.
www.fairtax.org
Sick of Government Expansion? libertarian-Minded Republican? Check This Out... Republican Liberty Caucus!!!
www.rlc.org http://www.republicanliberty.org/
How McCain turned his Confederate flag in SC stance into a huge applause is beyond me. Great work by McCain.
"put it behind us." SC surrendered, something they aren't noted for doing, on flying it on the capitol building and put it in a memorial park. They consider it done - as do I.
In Vino Veritas
John McCain - thank you... Yes indeed, it's time we move on from the issue of the flag...
This is like debating education funding. It's getting to be tiresome. I think that's the best we can say.
Takes Hard line from start. Presses energy independence as answer for AGW. Good way to approach it. Tried to take belated swipe at Ron Paul
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Rudy definitely pounced at the right moment--on Paul and 9/11.
He gave a great answer.
Unfortunately for Rudy, he's almost a "one issue candidate" regarding 9/11. No matter how right he is/was on 9/11, he's still pro-choice--not only pro-choice but pro-federal funding of abortion. It's a tough spot for him, but he certainly scored points there.
I emphatically do NOT support Rudy. but it was a very good moment for him. the site was having issues, with traffic I assume, was the reason for the double post - I didn't even hit post twice.
During the break. And frankly, their views on healthcare are going to be much more important than anything anyone on that stage says tonight. Those people are going to do whatever AARP really wants. None of them will admit it. But that's what's going to happen.
It's a fact. AARP members rely on the organization for health care policy information AND THEY VOTE ACCORDINGLY.
Healthcare is the AARP's main issue and for its members, it is an authority. So yes, the politicians should listen carefully.
Should investigate the AARP for racketeering, and terrorism.
They have way too much power.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
It will not get my vote.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I also really liked a really old but very good pair of Acoustic Research AR-15s that were built in the early 1970's and with two little drivers they just sounded great. Still a great speaker for the price.
When it comes to speakers, I'm into value and craftsmanship right now, not so much spending more than the other guy. I've been to audiophile shows in NYC and seen what you can empty your bank account to the tune of $50,000+ for, and while some of the designs are indeed impressive (and might require you to raise the roof in more ways than just the virtual soundstage to fit them into your living room) I'll stick with my Human 88-41's, which you can build for well under $1,000, be proud of the work from your own hands, and still rock the house righteously or swing softly from the treetops.
I like Huw's unambiguous philosophy.
Americans make the best speakers in the world. Sometimes we make them one at a time, sometimes we make them by the thousands, but we make the best. And you can buy the best at a very attractive price.
if we think of those as anything but a rifle. Had a pair hooked up to a Dynaco amp - love the purple glow of 6G6 tubes - a Lafayette preamp that had about a zillion knobs, and a Garrard turntable. Man, was I cool or what?
In Vino Veritas
I put it on a TV tray which I suspended on strings mounted into the ceiling to eliminate any vibrations. Man was I a dork!
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Polk audio fives, for , get this, twenty three years, and they were great for all that time.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
I have a pair of DAK 7 element speakers I bought in the 80's
They have 14" woofers, 4 midrange elements and two tweeters firing off the top. Things sound so realistic I have to look arond to make certain what I an watching isn't in the room.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Who cares what's causing it.
I think everyone agrees that we need to take better care of our environment and do things to conserve energy and live in a responsible manner.
Plus, investing in energy independence and alternative energy sources is good for national security and for the environment.
We Republicans need to accept that the world is changing... Who cares if it's us or just the way it is... Everyone agrees something needs to be done and that's what trips up the Republicans.
Good, fair and hard questions. Foxnews rules.
McCain flips on his torture position.
Compares what we do to what the NVA did.
You know better Senator.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
How can McCain blow that. Why focus on torture?
I don't like McCain, but that was a good answer.
In Vino Veritas
"Every method you can think of" - overzealous.
McCain is consistent on this issue. He has not flip flopped.
Let me append my own comment and say that you just put them in a room with John McCain and see what answers come out... I think he could get the answers out of any terrorist any day of the week.
Beautiful.
Romney avoids it, ducks, dodges and weaves.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I agree. Wonderful answer.
let's have some more "guests" over }>
I don't know if this has been Romney's best night, but he's still done well, and I'm coming ever closer to signing up in full.
McCain's also been very strong, with the glaring exception of the frustrating torture strawman.
Not much time for Hunter, my probable second favorite after Romney.
Huckabee's stock is rising. Brownback aqcuitted himself well.
Tommy Thompson had a pretty solid, complex answer to stem cell research, but he needed to be stronger on pointing out what snake oil embryonic stem cell research is, so it kind of negated itself. otherwise, not a whole lot.
Tancredo looked better than previously, but still can't support him. Gilmore didn't come off too well in the time he got. Giuliani had his one good moment, but otherwise didn't help himself.
and Ron Paul needs to drop out yesterday.
Romney gave an Obama-like answer to the "terrorist attack" question. He talked about prevention, local response, etc. I bet he'll catch grief for this.
In the original startrek. The one that strung together incoherent phrases.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
didn't know Hume was a lawyer. Haven't seen that glasses on and off technique in a while.
In Vino Veritas
Double Gitmo... Come on Multiple Choice Mitt... Stop pandering...
Barack Hussein Obama took grief in the DEMOCRATIC DEBATE for sounding "weak" on the terror attack response question. I can't imagine how how Romney's going to get slammed for his Obama-like answer.
Deaconblue,
I respect pro-choice views, pro-gay marriage folks, etc. I respect Rudy, for example, because he has been honest on his abortion stance.
Romney, on the other hand, has been disingenuous about his issue positions. He supported abortion rights and MANY other liberal positions throughout his time in Massachusetts. Two years ago, as Romney pondered a run for POTUS as a Republican, his position changed on many issues.
Romney is just like John Kerry. I don't trust him and neither will the American people.
All these issues have been discussed a million times. Your a tool for McCain. Stop lying. Barack Romney. You get the award forthe most retarded statement of the night.
Lets discuss the debate.
Did Mitt Romney kick your dogs or something? I think his answers have been pretty good. McCain is having a good night too but I think Mitt has held his own.
D
McCain just hit a home run on the follow-up torture question. He spoke of his military record as a true national hero and his long record of support for the men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces.
McCain's on track for a debate victory tonight.
What is he talking about ? Sacrifice, did anyone say we wouldn't go after terrorists.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Romney said that he would try to stop terror attacks and if he had one he'd be glad to have the terrorists out of the country where he could interrogate them without US rules. How is this "soft" or "Obama-like?" Do you work for Guliani or Thompson?
D
Enhanced interrogation and torture ? Whaaaaaaaaa?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
can shaft Paul on the economy.
From the view of any real economist, Ron Paul is a resounding #1. it's not even a matter of opinion. Everyone looks like a socialist or state-sponsored capitalist (not much difference) next to Ron Paul.
As for Ron Paul's supposed "gaffe", let's remember, for a matter of factual, albeit inconvenient, clarification that Bin Laden specifically named what Ron Paul said as one of his reason for "declaring war on America". Paul could have said it in a better way to not throw red meat to Rudy and others, but he did not err on factual grounds.
_Don't tread on me._
I am shafting him for not answering the question in a ridiculous way.
He might as well replied by talking about his position on abortion.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
It was easy to answer he didn't spend more time:
Cut taxes even further, gut spending and redefine the role of government in a big way.
With more time, he would have gone into the Fed and inflation and the sound explanation of how Fed policies with its cartel on fiat currency actually causes the "unavoidable" business cycle.
Few people would understand though.
_Don't tread on me._
This debate was a lot of fun and there are obviously people here who have their loyalties, but I have to say this:
The next debate needs to be slower-paced. We need to have five minute response times at the very least and a smaller number of more focused questions.
It's time to winnow out a couple of the losers and shift gears. We need to decide -- within the next month or so -- who to cull from this group and close the field down.
We need better answers, more indepth answers, and answers where people aren't primarily responding to the format but responding to the question.
We're doing ourselves a disservice if we let this format continue into Debate III. Time to cull the herd and slow down the pace.
Quote of the Night !!
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
There is a temptation to play the tough guy on torture, but it could come back to haunt these candidates in the general election if they can be labled "pro-torture."
D
Dangerous ground here; since when do we as americans support torture!!
Good lord.
Or was that ethereal evidence ?
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I really liked that answer. I don't care if he can't win, I think he's basically on the mark with that answer, and he should get some credit for that.
Whatever you think of Romney, Chris Wallace's question of him was spot on.
"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."
who's sensing some sockpuppetry on this thread?
if we are not careful. The only people who actively support torture are the more extreme right of the republican party. We are going to get their votes anyway so why turn off the rest of the american population by being pro torture!!
Again, good lord.
that is why McCain's strawman on the issue is so frustrating and harmful to Republicans. otherwise he did very well for himself tonight.
they would love to help torture some jihadi a-hole.
I am not saying thats a good attitude, but ts out there.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Where did Bull Moose and braveheartdc come from? McCain's headquarters?
Disclaimer: I watched House and the Phillies game tonight.
Welcome to your first week (or day) at RedState, fellas!
__________________________________________
First State Politics
Can we add Deaconblue79 to the list? He's been a member almost as long as the Phillies have been 19-20.
LOL. I'm not supporting McCain, but I wouldnt start calling him Barack McCain. Way to out yourself as a complete tool. I'll tell you where I stand. I have certain biases, but I'm not a one trick pony who just yelps absurdities.
I probably would put him shortly after Rudy and the hypothetical Fred Thompson candidacy on my list of preferred nominees.
He'd been a member for 26 minutes when I checked, and he was supporting McCain, as were a few of the other new members.
If I lumped him in over zealously, I feel like a jerk and will apologize.
I'd like to think I'm at least a two or three trick pony though. Have you not read my rants about how bad a quarterback Rex Grossman is?
You were agreeing with me that he was being a shill for McCain, I guess I didn't get your snark.
If not, and he still wasn't, that's OK, and the above comment of mine stands, and the apology for my accusation still stands.
All these random folks coming out of the woodwork. The mind spins.
Although I must say, RS has needed some committed McCainiacs to even out the weight of other candidates / anti-McCain posters. Hopefully, they will stop being so plastic in their posts and actually engage people.
We definitely don't need McCain version of Romneybots.
______________________________________
Bobby Jindal Saves Louisiana
On all of this.
McCain is probably the most likely nominee. There ought to be people on here who actually really like/defend him. As I said, I like him a lot. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it. It just seemed a bit much to me that a crowd of people who hadn't posted much before were all pro-McCain.
Honestly, the thing that got me was I knew I could not watch the debate, and in its place watch the Phillies and House, and I would be able to get a fair idea of how the debate went between the transcript and the RedState comments. Then 1/3 of the comments are from a few guys I'd never seen before and were generally pro-McCain,, sometimes to the point of being sort of absurd.
but McCain's my second choice. However, I will say that the torture commet was bad.
How he should've answered:
"I wouldn't use torture because I think it's morally wrong."
Period.
McCain won the debate tonight.
Rudy did far better than last time. Romney squandered a chance to overtake McCain/Rudy as the top two.
None of the bottom tier folks moved enough to make a difference.
It's now 10:30 PM and nothing on health care - the number one domestic issue facing our country and causing state and local governments budgets to go up and putting a huge crunch on businesses...
That's got to be discussed in the next debate.
That debate was 40 times better than the last one. The questions were tough but fair and I only only wish that fewer candidates were on stage.
D
If anyone questions Romney's honesty any longer, I'm going to puke. He just stuck his neck out forthrightly on a very contentious issue and did it without hesitation. If any of you haters want to keep it up, you're going nowhere with me. He answered the question without dissembling. It may not be the answer you like, but it was honest.
I'm glad that Wendell asked the question that he did...
It doesn't make since to cut taxes when you have to borrow from China to make it happen.
Get fiscally sound first and foremost and then cut taxes.
And I'm surprised how FUN that was. Lockstep? Hah! Lively. Spicy. And the dudes made some statements that took some GUTS.
But I'm still on the Run Fred Run train.
It's war -- so when can we start shooting back at the enemy Democrats?
Great job by the FOX guys tonight. Top shelf. Great questions.
__________________________________________
First State Politics
Ron Paul Lost
Thompson Lost
Really hard to say who won.
Giuliani Looked good.
Erick thought McCain was like Dole. I Voted for Dole. So hard for me.
Tancredo Got one of the two big lines of the night.
Romney was very telegenic and on message.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
without scores, repeating much of what I said in a comment somewhere upthread.
McCain very good except his maddening insinuation that we're torturing people.
Romney wasn't at his very best, but still a solid performance, and his explanation for his conversion on abortion was moving and one we should be plastering everywhere.
I thought Huckabee was very good (John Edwards line was great).
Brownback was good.
Hunter didn't get enough time, but was alright.
probably the strongest Tancredo performance I've seen (paging Jack Bauer!)
Rudy's visible anger at Paul's dumbassery wins him points, and he didn't flounder totally otherwise, but didn't particularly help himself (though not hurting himself too much may be the best help he can give himself).
Thompson was mixed. Better in a bureaucratic/policy position though, I think.
Gilmore didn't do himself any favors by coming out sniping.
Ron Paul better not come near me for a day or two or he may find himself mising an appendage.
Ron Paul=Michael Moore! Let's see, it's our fault. We need to get out of the Middle East, the Shaw of Iran, although he did leave out Afganastan and how Reagan left the weapons the Taliban used to take over, but appladed Reagan for following Pat Buchanan's (sp) advice and leaving Lebanon after they killed our Marines. Did he ever think our leaving after Lebanon set up a bad pattern that conveyed weakness to the world?
Did anyone see Friedman's editorial in the New York Times. If we get out of Iraq what are we going to do about oil prices? Do we have a plan to save our economy along with our hides?
Please forgive the spelling!
No real shakeups overall, I think McCain will gain some support. Guliani will hold steady as will Romney. Thompson better get in soon, I think his window is closing...
Huckabee- great performance, should be someone's VP
McCain- probably won, took a punch from Romney and threw a haymaker back. Also looked good throughout the rest and didn't have any bad answers.
Romney- Good performance, didn't hurt himself but didn't help much either.
Guiliani- Started strong, will get good points for Paul interaction
Paul- Last time he will be in a national debate...
The rest- I Tivoed this so I could fast forward them...
Rankings for this debate-
1)McCain
2)Giuliani
3)Huckabee
4)Romney
Paul
Field
Gold Medal: Wendall Goler
Silver Medal: Chris Wallace
Bronze Medal: Brit Hume
But if I were a liberal I would give all the moderators a Great well done. The questions were good hard hitting and didn't let them weasel.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
He knocked the UN. A plus in my scoring. I did like the tag team attack of Giuliani/Tancredo on Ron Paul.
You’re a persistent cuss, pilgrim.
John Wayne to Jimmy Stewart in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
My post mortem,
Helped themselves
Rudy
Brownback
tancredo
and especially Huckabee
Hurt themselves
McCain
Thompson
Gilmore
Paul
Stayed the same
Romney
Hunter
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Category, also. It was a better debate than the first one, it was better-run, the questions were more incisive and less theatrical, and the post-debate coverage is better.
MSNBC sucks, we all know that, but here's the proof. Viva la Fox!
Rudy on Foxnews talking about terrorism. He gets too over the top on this stop. We know you did good job Rudy. But don't act like the only guy who remembers.
He's banking on that issue so much, it may backfire on him. He talks like no one got hurt or remembers.
I'm curious, why do you think McCain hurt himself? I thought he was good, certainly a lot better than they first debate (no creepy smiles).
D
avoid using torture because we avoided using water boarding. And THAT is PRECISELY the load of hogwash McCain was trying to sell us.
I agree that he did not have any creepy smiles, but would somebody on his staff please help him stop posing like Hans and Franz?!? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_and_Franz)
I agree that the torture issue is not the business we should be in, but you really need to explain to me why the Geneva Convention should apply to Terrorists. Every single US Soldier captured by Al-Qaida has been tortured and/or beheaded. I support a no torture policy for other nation's soldiers, but I do not hold up the same standard for Terrorists.
I think what this debate showed was that we need to keep the people on stage to:
Giuliani
McCain
Romney
Huckabee
Brownback
Hunter
The rest of these folks are at best a sideshow (Tancredo) and at worst a stain on the party (Paul).
"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."
While it's impossible to have a winner in this context
I thought Huckabee, Brownback, Hunter and Tancredo did very well
I was very impressed with Huckabee and Brownback tonight
The rest of the field sounded flat, dry and canned... imo
Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report
I know its difficult to accept that anything we do can cause us harm. Although Ron Paul went to far; the point about the Shaw of Iran is valid and does demonstrate exactly that our actions do have blow back. The hostages were taken in iran because of US support to the shah not because of american 'freedom and wealth'.
We will never win the war on terror if we refuse to accept some uncomfortable realities.
What about the Catholics who are attacked in the Philipines? What about the people in Bali, and Australia? What about the hindus in India who are attacked every week? What about the Buhddists in Thailand who are under Islamic assault?
What did they do?
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Never used tonight by anyone... I'm surprised.
Big Winner
McCain
Big Losers
Romney, Paul
Small Winners
Giuliani, Huckabee, Hunter
Small Losers
Brownback, Thompson, Gilmore, Tancredo
I've ever watched. Fox did a superb job of manageing what coud have been a goat rope.
In Vino Veritas
Braveheart,
Are you going to back up your rankings with some analysis or are you too busy kissing McCain's @ss to make an argument?
D
"Does Al Quaeda have plan B ?"
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
For what it's worth, I consider my wife to be the average GOP primary voter: conservative (minister's daughter (the good kind)), educated, southern, but not following politics that closely, conservative worldview, but not necessarily thought-out conservative views on every issue. Her impression was that Romney and Huckabee were clearly the best of the night, followed by Giuliani and McCain, and then Duncan Hunter.
My guess is that this is how it played to most of your average viewers.
Hear, hear! The wife test is remarkably accurate.
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First State Politics
MSNBC and Mathews, because Fox showed everbody how a debate ought to be and not the mickey mouse crap they pulled.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Fox positively outclassed the popgunners over at MSNBC. Brit Hume did a great job.
If anyone is worth $15 million as an anchor, it's not Katic Couric -- it's Brit Hume.
Romney should have been the second interview in the post-debate. Giuliani shined, McCain was a bit better than he was in the first debate, but Romney should have been the second person facing Hannity.
But like I've said, the Southern Comfort theory still obtains.
McCain just said something remarkable on Hannity's show:
"Romney voted for Democratic presidential candidate Paul Tsongas in 1992." Conversely, McCain said he met and befriended Ronald and Nancy Reagan when he returned from his 5 1/2 stint as a POW. McCain credited Reagan for partially inspiring him to "change professions" from a Navy pilot to a politician.
Good stuff from McCain.
I thought McCain did well too, but seriously, you've got to tone it down a little bit. Your McCain fetish is getting a bit much.
"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."
"What about the people in Bali,"- they targeted clubs/bars with mostly Australian patrons; the muslim extremeists view austrlia as a puppet supporter of the US
What about the hindus in India who are attacked every week? They are attacked because of the fight over Kashmir- the muslims want Kashmir to be part of Muslim pakistan.
" What about the Buhddists in Thailand"- the southern Thai muslims want an idependent state, hence their 'insurgency/terrorism.
Of course these people should not resort to terror. But in order to fight them we have to understand why theyare resorting to terror. The key point is, dont believe the arguement that these muslim terrorists are just inherently evil and will conduct terror whatever the situation. The IRA were terrorists and killed inocents, but now because a peace process addresses their grievances, there is peace in northern island.
what do all those things have in common? Islamics hating and killing non Islamics. Unless you want us all praying to mecca and by the way let all our Jews be killed, there is no stopping their hate or reasoning with them.
Yes our previous actions might have given fuel to the fire, but they were not responsible for this jihad movement, it happens periodically in Islamic history,
You need to get real, we have done a LOT to also help the peoples of the middle east, but there culture only turns that into weakness not gratitude.
We cannot appease them we have to DEFEAT them.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
During the British war against IRA terror, alot of Brits felt the same way as you. "Why should we understand the IRA when they are killing our families? Lets just kill them!".
But the British gov. began to support catholic communities strongly, the brits made sure the old anti-catholic laws were repealed. e.g. the brits launched a hearts and mind campaign NOT aimed atthe terrorists but aimed at the communities thatthe terrorists came from. The brits also began a peace process based on cathlic grievances.
I agree with you in that often some terrorists (islamic, irish, sri lankan whoever) often become focused on the violence instead of their ulitimate goals. Yes, we should aim to kill/capture these people; but if we just storm in with armies/navies/airforce you end up in a situation like Iraq- bogged down in hostile communities with no way out while bleeding treasure and young american lives (and by the way i support the surge as the least worst option).
Trying tounderstand your enemy is not weakness , its a massive strength. And this is the danger i notice today, alot of the far right see it as weakness to understand our enemies.
I understand that my enemy would as soon behead me as look at me. We are not dealing with normal human beings here, friend.
Go over there and try massages and group hugs, then let us know how it works.
You've got to be kidding me. To assume this is some rational thinking people who think "well, we've tried being patient and explained our feelings and attitudes to the Western world, but they just keep thrashing us, so it's time we resort, reluctantly to terrorism to get our point across" is the height of stupidity.
To say "of course these people should not resort to terror. But..." totally excuses their behavior. Who cares that their reading of the Koran tells them to kill all non-Muslims and to repress women to the point they are treated worse than livestock.
And you clearly aren't well informed of the conflict in Northern Ireland. Get back to me when the Troubles started and how long it took, and that this is NOT the first devolved government in Northern Ireland. The process there may have finally become permanent due mostly to economic issues than the people finally deciding to stop killing one another.
I agree that many of the terrorists them selves are beyond negotiating- lets kill/capture them.
But dont forget the 100s of millions of 'swing' muslims who are not terrorists and who might secretly aspirre or respect american values - do we want to a) alienate them sotheysupport and harbour the terrorists or b) win them over so they actively inform against terrorists?
If justfocus on military means and massive use of force you will get a). If you begin to understand what muslim grievances are u get potentially b).
I have alot of family in Britain and I have to say one positive outcome of 9-11 was that americans stopped their romance tinged support of the IRA (which also helped push the IRAto the peace table).
So, yes ,lets be tough on terror, but lets also understand that real life is not an episode of 24.
And I agree. Nix Paul. We need to find one or two others to nix also.
There are some people who would claim that Shirley MacLaine is Mother Teresa because she thinks she might have been in a past life, but we know better. She's just a whacko. Screw 'em. ;)
Good call.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
www.fairtax.org
Sick of Government Expansion? libertarian-Minded Republican? Check This Out... Republican Liberty Caucus!!!
www.rlc.org http://www.republicanliberty.org/
for something to use to sink Ron Paul after he shined in the first debate. No surprise there.
This same media is already spinning what Ron Paul said. I'm watching it happen already. The soundbyte is clear:
Ron Paul said we invited 9/11. Bad Ron! Bad Ron!
Whatever. Paul said something very simple and very true. Come on, to say paul was wrong, when Bin Laden himself stated what
what Paul referred to as a REASON for declaring war on America, is to simply assume that islamic hatred of us is spontaneous.
_Don't tread on me._
He proved it tonight. Ed Clark almost had my vote in 1980 and thats the last time I thought the libertarians had a chance.
Ron Paul by blaming America does not help the parties cause.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
You may not like Ron Paul (even though his domestic policies would be a God-sent) because of his foreign policy views.
However, Ron Paul did "Blame America"....that's cheap, feel-good spin for Paul haters.
Paul simply said that our policies directly contributed to the hatred that led to 9/11. To deny that is to believe that islamic extremism and its hatred toward America (its government to be more accurate) is completely spontaneous. Yeah. OK. And Algerian hatred toward France came out of nowhere.
The deliberate hyperbolic reaction to Paul's comment is to simply deny history and how the aggregate of a web of policies over time has blow back and fuels consequences of all kinds.
_Don't tread on me._
But they have to get implemented. Ron paul showed he's not the man to sit in the big chair. He would be eaten alive.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
No. he'd just set a record for vetoes and the smallest proposed budget since the founders. He'd also go on ambitious campaigns to abolish or redefine the role of the Fed.
Paul wanting to tackle the Fed and all that it causes goes to the heart of so many problems we have. It would be Andrew Jackson against the Bank of the USA all over again.
I wouldn't leave the WH for 4 years in I were him either. He'd get whacked.
_Don't tread on me._
Romney's post-debate interview is coming up. Unlike the first debate, I'm staying tuned.
Congrats to the directors for insuring the site functioned beautifully.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Wallace was superb! Loved when he asked Rudy the same question again, "Let me give you a chance to answer my question..."
Sean Hannity and Michael Steele just said that Romney took some hard shots tonight and slipped. This confirms what I and many others noted during the debate.
Of the top tier candidates, McCain did the best. Rudy had a good night because that one 9/11 line acquitted him of his other flaws.
Romney flopped.
Just curious, did anyone else hear Hannity and Steele say that Romney "slipped"?
I didn't get to see but I'll be curious to know if others heard what braveheartdc heard.
It was just Steele who said that Romney took hits tonight. I agree with one of the poster's wives above (in the Wife test). Romney started slow, was skipped some in the middle, was asked a triple compressed question (abortion/guns/something else), but ended with good answers on the questions given (meaning he answered the questions asked unlike Gilmore).
None will be asked, anyway. I don't know if any would be cut off abruptly.