Better Late Than Never . . .

By Pejman Yousefzadeh Posted in Comments (23) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

I didn't initially comment on Osama bin Laden's latest because I was busy with this thing called "real life."

I do, however, want to focus on bin Laden's latest for the purpose of highlighting the following:

According to the transcript, bin Laden says there are two ways to end the war:

"The first is from our side, and it is to continue to escalate the killing and fighting against you."

The second is to do away with the American democratic system of government. "It has now become clear to you and the entire world the impotence of the democratic system and how it plays with the interests of the peoples and their blood by sacrificing soldiers and populations to achieve the interests of the major corporations."

[. . .]

"To conclude," bin Laden says, "I invite you to embrace Islam."  He goes on to say:  "There are no taxes in Islam, but rather there is a limited Zakaat [alms] totaling 2.5 percent."

Note that this list of ludicrous demands does not limit itself to merely curbing American influence in the Middle East. Rather, it seeks a genuine and radical transformation in the nature of American society itself.

And we shouldn't be surprised.

Read on . . .

Thursday's bombings of the subways and a bus in London raise a question: If the West (more specifically, the United States) withdraws its armed forces from Iraq and the rest of the Muslim world will the Muslim terrorists leave us alone? Those who think so can point to research done by University of Chicago political scientist Robert Pape, author of Dying To Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism, who argued last week in The New York Times that "Al Qaeda is today less a product of Islamic fundamentalism than of a simple strategic goal: to compel the United States and its Western allies to withdraw combat forces from the Arabian Peninsula and other Muslim countries." Pape also suggests that his analysis leads to the conclusion, "If not for the world's interest in Persian Gulf oil, the obvious solution might well be simply to abandon the region altogether." Recent polls show that a majority of Americans are increasingly sympathetic to the idea that the United States should withdraw at least some of its troops from Iraq.

Osama bin Laden's 2002 letter to America seems initially to confirm Pape's analysis. Bin Laden says that he attacked the United States "because you attacked us and continue to attack us." In his letter bin Laden also writes, "We also advise you to pack your luggage and get out of our lands... Leave us alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington." On its face, bin Laden's letter suggests that if the United States and its allies withdraw their troops from Muslim majority nations that at least he would stop blessing attacks on Western civilians such as the London bombings.

There are reasons to doubt even that small hope. Consider some other bin Laden demands: "The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam." He then goes on to detail the American outrages that offend him. For example, bin Laden declares, "You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies..." Among other bin Laden indictments of America are:

(1) "You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury."

(2) "You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants."

(3) "You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom."

Bin Laden further calls upon the United States "to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling, and trading with interest." Bin Laden concludes, "It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind."

So it would appear that national character and personality does cause anger among the fundamentalist terrorists and that a significant part of their rhetorical attacks involve denouncing our national character.

Gosh, maybe bin Laden and his allies really do hate us for who and what we are. Maybe their efforts really are aimed at engendering cultural transformation on our side and not just placing limits on our geopolitical reach. And maybe we can stop arguing about the legitimacy of these claims concerning bin Laden's and al Qaeda's aims now that they have given us enough hints to conclude that they are serious about what they say.

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Better Late Than Never . . . 23 Comments (0 topical, 23 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »

It is beyond maddening to hear people, otherwise intelligent, go on and on about how we have made ourselves so unpopular with other countries by our policies, how we should work harder to understand their positions, how we need to know "where they're coming from" and blah, blah, blah. Mr. Bailey enunciates quite clearly where they are coming from--submit, convert or die.
So maybe now the battlelines are a little more delineated. If we wish to remain free people, we must fight those who would have it otherwise--as simple,and as eternal, as that.

Thanks for posting OBL's invitation exposing his real goals. He tries to convince US citizens to forgo our freedoms. To see the error of our democracy. He's telling us how to "improve" our country.

I hope whoever our candidate is, he uses OBL tapes and words "straight from the horse's mouth" in ads to HAMMER the Democrats. EXPOSE their weakness and lack of understanding of the enemy we are facing.

AQ continue to plan and would love to strike again. Only Repubs have kept that from happening for six years. I hope for a strong campaign that gets people back to reality.

This is where OBL tapes really help us and make Dems look downright silly, IMO.

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Life is not fair, but It's still a Wonderful Life!

Is it clear yet what Bin Laden and his minon's objectives are here? Do we have any doubt as to the intentions? If so, don't believe him, look only at Britain, Germany, Italy and other European countries and see the internal deterioration as Islam takes a foothold inside their cultures. You don't think this can happen here? Research what's happening in some of the Islamic strongholds in Minniapolis and other cities. Keep listenig to the sympathizers and the ACLU; they will stangle us with our own liberties, and we're helping them.

Unfortunately, it is not going to help with the defeatists (far left) in this country. It also seems that too many of the left seem to be joining this group.

Just look at those that continue to support Nifong and the Duke academic standards... They to would rejoice and support Osama's cause. I am beginning to fear for the safety and the future for this nation...

I will be gone before this happens but I fear for my son's future...

Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."

Exactly. My passion is with you. As someone who lost a friend in the WTC on 911 as well has had a family member who served in Iraq, I've understood that Iraq is the battlefront. (Six years ... Dems want to argue where it SHOULD be or whatever ... that reality thing again. OBL has acknowledged it's Iraq, but the Dems - duh...)

Oh gee, let the Dems gamble and nitpick so we have the battlefront on mainstreet USA? Starbucks? Any Republican candidate should be able to get the passion to make that case, IMO. And now we have OBL with a dyed beard? Where's the Cialis? Geesh, I'd wish I could do the campaign myself.

I have passion. As I've noted here before, my family is in the mist of a population explosion. 12th granchild due at Christmas. (Score's going to even up -- 6 girls and 6 boys.) As with you, we want to get this war over, but my family also knows we may be fighting this enemy for years.

Like the cold war. Buck up, it's worth it if we like the great America we live in. We'll need to fight to keep it for our children and grandchildren.

I want our candidate to get that passion and make our case!

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Life is not fair, but It's still a Wonderful Life!

I think that you pick the wrong moniker though..heh. Only kookie to the wild leftists...

Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."

I'd love to change it now that I've decided to occasionally participate on this website. Don't know if I'd get in trouble doing that though. My name is Kathy and at this point I wouldn't mind changing to that.

Thanks for the advice. We've got a lot of serious fighting to do with the coming election.

===============

Life is not fair, but It's still a Wonderful Life!

They do hate us for what we are, but that doesn't mean that we have to convert to Islam for Al Qaeda to stop attacking us. It is a requirement under fundamentalist Islam to offer your enemies a chance to convert to Islam. We could meet Al Qaeda's demands without converting by ending our involvement in the Middle East and Islamic countries. The problem is that this would involve total withdrawal from Iraq, ending any kind of support for Middle Eastern regimes, ending our support of Isreal, withdrawal from Afghanistan, ending our support for the Phillipino government, and ending our involvement in any other areas of the world that Al Qaeda might deem "unacceptable". I don't believe Al Qaeda really wants to "take away our freedom" in a literal sense (other than by killing us), but they have extremely low standards for what constitutes an act of war against Islam. These are Jihadists who look for reasons to go to war.

that converting to Islam is an affront *collapse of other) to other religions? The whole concept of your response make me nauseas. Christians who do not confront this are lost - there is no other battles! Might I think that you are not a Christian but maybe an agnostic?

Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."

" I don't believe Al Qaeda really wants to "take away our freedom" in a literal sense (other than by killing us), but they have extremely low standards for what constitutes an act of war against Islam."

Do you really believe what the above sentence says?

"I don't believe Al Qaeda really wants to "take away our freedom" in a literal sense (other than by killing us),..."

=============

Life is not fair, but It's still a Wonderful Life!

"The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam." He then goes on to detail the American outrages that offend him. For example, bin Laden declares, "You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies..."

Did you disbelieve the above statement of Osauma Bin Ladin, or did you fail to comprehend what he was talking about?

James Hansen - Scott THomas Beauchamp with a PhD.

He has zero chance of making us change our way of life unless we do it ourselves. Sure OBL, AQ and islamofacists are dangerous and serious enemies, but let's not give him or them too much credit. The president is correct that while we must be vigilant and use our military, intelligence services and law enforcement agencies to root out and kill this relatively small group of murderers, we can't allow them to actually terrorize us.

we can't allow them to actually terrorize us.

That's already happened. Everytime you wait longer at an airport, or pay more for an imported good that had to be screened before it could enter the country, and everytime you stand in line to be frisked at a show or a professional sporting event, youa re paying the OBL tax.

James Hansen - Scott THomas Beauchamp with a PhD.

But except for the low tax part, it sounds pretty much like a standard democrat stump speech.
Maybe George Soros is giving ObL some talking points these days, along with a little financial assist.

that is why such ideology is referred to as "extremist". SInce when do we alter our country's compass in reaction to such an element? Our spine is much stronger than that.There is nothing to fear, but....

We have all seen the propensity, in bin Laden's culture, to switch sides like a weathervane in response to changes in the perception of who's ahead. We see this constantly in Afghanistan, where local warlords are on our side one week and are fighting alongside the Taliban the next. One suspects that the recent conversion of Iraqi Sunnis, who are suddenly on our side and are "fighting al-Qa'eda" has a lot more to do with 'the surge' knocking al-Qa'eda back on its heels than with any sudden conversion to democratic ideals.

It is reasonable to assume that bin Laden expects us to behave the same way. A couple of good punches in the nose, and we'll run to embrace Islam. He's probably surprised that we didn't all convert on 9/12/01.

This is a serious miscalculation on his part, but we probably can't expect anything else from him or from anyone who might take his place. That means he'll keep coming, and his successors will keep coming, always under the illusion that one more suicide bombing will drive us all to submit. None of them "get" The Western Way Of War, which is to avoid it as long as possible, but to do things like Dresden and Hiroshima once we start.

Drink Good Coffee. You can sleep when you're dead.

I wish I was as sure of that as you are.

From your lips to God's ear I pray.

like a comedian in front of a hostile audience... Has he become a host of laughter or just a tool of the left? He is absolutely funny in this last video which seems to position him with the far leftists! Go Demotcrats, spout Obama's prophsies...fools all...

Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."

with a slightly worse hair-doo?

James Hansen - Scott THomas Beauchamp with a PhD.

It seems the Democrats have a friend in Osama. I'm not too sure that is a plus with the upcoming election to have one such as he rooting for your team. It gives one pause doesn't it?

Is it Osama rooting for the Democrats or the Democrats following the ideology of Osama and him cheering them on? At this juncture it's hard to tell.

In another part of his letter to America, he itemizes the sins of our nation, in particular the production of intoxicating alcohol and the consumption thereof. He might do well to clean up his own house first. Ever watched Muslims as they depart Saudi Arabia in their thobes and abayas only to shed them once the plane departs Saudi airspace and then head for the nearest bar once they touchdown at Heathrow? It's a sight to behold. They're as big a hypocrite as bubba, who lives in a dry county, who gets picked up for drunk driving. Go figure!

After bin Laden releases a tape and makes all sorts of outlandish threats against the U.S., I'm always surprised that there are many Americans who seem to take bin Laden's obviously self-aggrandizing statements as if he actually was capable of achieving his goals. You think Osama bin Laden thinks he can cause the downfall of democracy in America? Our own CIA says bin Laden is basically irrelevant in terms of al Qaeda's operations. In America the main effect of these tapes is to serve as fodder for people who think ranting against Islam makes them patriotic. They don't hate us because we are "free". It is a combination of factors - religious intolerance, the American role in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, American military intervention in numerous Middle Eastern countries and the invasion of American consumerism and pop culture into their societies.

Yes,too many people in the Middle East are caught under the grip of oppressive governments - but they won't trust the United States to help until the U.S. changes it's policy toward the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. The U.S. sells billions of dollars of advanced weaponry to the Israelis and expects the Palestinians to trust the U.S. as an impartial mediator. Also, the U.S. is selling over $20 billion in advanced weaponry to the Saudi Arabian government. Don't tell me the U.S. is fostering democracy in the Middle East when it's doing things like this. The U.S. sold weapons to Saddam Hussein and the Taliban in the 1980's. Too much short term thinking. No wonder Iraqis don't trust an Iraqi government that is being propped up by the U.S. military.

'cause it may take a while to get it all down.

You think Osama bin Laden thinks he can cause the downfall of democracy in America?

Yes, I do. While this might make him delusional, the assistance he continues to get from Michael Moore, George Soros, MoveOn.org, the Democrat party, and the MSM media call into question that diagnosis.

Our own CIA says bin Laden is basically irrelevant in terms of al Qaeda's operations.

At this stage of the game the CIA has become to compromised by too many leftist political appointees to be regarded as a reliable source of information about anything but non-controversial issues. The whole Valerie Plame fiasco was a result of the CIA failing to follow their own procedures and having analysts whose egos were more important than national security. If Plame was the "covered employee" the CIA asserted she was, one active measure they should have taken to prevent her from being discovered was a standard NDA for the work her husband did. The next measure was having here disuade her husband from publishing an article that was going to lead right back to her. "How did a fool like him get this assignment?" was a logical question for any reporter to ask.

They don't hate us because we are "free".

Yes, they do. Because you don't get the kind of liberty we have here without ALL of the other factors you say combine to make them hate us. The Israeli's are the ONLY working democratic state in the Middle East. They cannot be abandonned because the Chamberlain's of our time think turning them over to the tender mercies of Islamic terrorists will bring peace in our time. And that's not including the blood price we've already paid in WWII to preserve our, as well as their, freedom. I may not like selling $200 billion in arms to the Saudi's, but at least for the moment it is keeping Europe stable. If Europe goes, the rest goes soon after. Yes, it is betting we're going to be able to get to the stick to cut the fuse before the big pack of TNT goes boom, but right now we need to take care of the guy with the gun who is attacking us in this cave. Same thing applies to selling the weapons to Saddam. He was fighting the Iranians who are now working on atomic WMDs. They weren't doing that when they were busy fighting him. Best part was, no matter who lost on the battlefield, you could cheer becuase it was one less bad guy we were going to have to deal with later. No, I wouldn't give them high tech stuff, but they can have as many m16s, ak47, and gernade launchers as they want. We weren't supporting the Taliban in Afghanistan. We supported other insurgent groups in the region, and specificly steered clear of bin Laden because he was identified as unstable.

but they won't trust the United States to help until

No, they won't trust the United States until we keep one of our commitments. We turned tail and ran in Vietnam when we were on the verge of victory. If Jane Fonda hadn't been posing pictures, and if Uncle Wa-Wa hadn't gone full Left Tilt on National televsion we would have established a working stable Democracy in Vietnam. Instead, millions died because WE didn't honor our comitments (and no I don't mean the soldiers on the field who WERE trying to honor those comitments, I mean us the American people who were safe at home watch Uncle WaWa). Then we made a comitment to Lebanon and turned tail after a barracks bombing in Beruit. In Africa we turned tail and ran after the Boy President failed to provide armored transport so a rag tag bunch of insurgents could kill 16 soldiers. And we ignored their intentions in 1993 when they FIRST tried to blow up the World Trade Center. You want the Iraqi's to trust us? Tell Grandma Pelosi and Clueless Harry to give the President full, unhampered authority to do whatever it takes to win instead of trying to figure out how to milk a defeat in Iraq for a few more seats in Congress. Even if that means a real honest-to-God declaration of War against all supporters of terrorism wherever and whoever they might be.

 
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