Domenici becomes the latest to dive
(Can this war really be lost on Capitol Hill?)
By Mark Kilmer Posted in War — Comments (46) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Senator Pete Domenici (R-New Mexico) has become the latest Republican Senator to join Democrats in arguing that General David Petraeus's Iraq strategy will not work if given the chance and that our troops should be pulled from Iraq.
Rather than wait for that report, to be drafted by the administration, Domenici and other senior Republicans have called for a change in course this summer in advance of the coming legislative fight this month in the Senate on the authorization bill for the Pentagon.
"I am unwilling to continue our current strategy," Domenici said flatly, blaming the Iraqi government for its inability to get its internal administration in order.
The report will be drafted by General Petraeus and US Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker, who have spent more time in Iraq of late that Senators Domenici, Lugar, or Warner or the list of Democrats. Pete's plugging his ears and stomping his feet, unwilling to wait two months for word from Iraq.
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According to the WashPost's Paul Kane, who also seems to think we should ignore our generals and get out now, Domenici was a thoughtful man in a world full of nasty war:
"I have carefully studied the Iraq situation, and believe we cannot continue asking our troops to sacrifice indefinitely while the Iraqi government is not making measurable progress to move its country forward," Domenici said. "I do not support an immediate withdrawal from Iraq or a reduction in funding for our troops. But I do support a new strategy that will move our troops out of combat operations and on the path to coming home."
What to do when Iraq falls apart and the terrorists assume control of the country and its oil supply when we beat a hasty retreat? Perhaps Domenici would have us redeploy to Okinawa, ready to leap the Pacific Asia to strike at will.
But it's the ISG thing:
Domenici endorsed a bill written by Sen. Ken Salazar (D-Colo.) and Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) that adopts the 79 recommendations from the Iraq Study Group, chaired by former Secretary of State James A. Baker III and former Rep. Lee Hamilton (D-Ind.), as the policy of the United States.
Baker and Hamilton would know the way better than would General Petraeus and the President, some think.
The fallout from this? Kane has a hope:
As of now, he [dingy Harry] appears to be short of the two-thirds votes needed to over-ride a presidential veto of legislation setting a withdrawal date, but the statements from Domenici and the other senators give momentum to Democrats upon which they hope to build.
This war could be lost on Capitol Hill. Sound familiar? (HINT: A media-spawned "quagmire.")
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How do I go about renouncing my citizenship?
(1) Leave the country. There is no procedure for renouncing your citizenship while still physically present in the U.S. The government has the idea that if you're mad enough to renounce your citizenship you probably don't want to keep living here (although most militia types seem to want to stick around, presumably to keep their disgust fresh). Also, frankly, most of the 800 or so people who renounce their U.S. citizenship each year aren't protesters but rather are cases of "dual citizenship" who haven't lived in the U.S. for a long time. What typically happens is that someone is born in the U.S. to non-U.S. parents, who later return to their native land. Such a person is automatically a U.S. citizen but has a claim to his parents' nationality also. While dual citizenship is usually not illegal--the U.S. "tolerates" it--it can complicate your life, notably in connection with taxes. So many people choose one or the other on reaching adulthood.
(2) Apply for citizenship somewhere else. Strictly speaking this is optional, in the sense that it's optional to put on the parachute before you jump out of the plane. But if you're a stateless person living abroad and you get in a jam with the local authorities, or you want to get a passport to travel to yet another country (or back to this one), you're up fecal matter creek.
(3) Go to a U.S. embassy or consulate and tell them you want to renounce your citizenship. Often they'll try to talk you out of it, tell you to come back after you've slept it off, etc. Persist. Eventually they'll have you sign an oath of renunciation, an affidavit affirming the oath, and a "statement of understanding," which basically asks you if you're sure you know what you're doing. You also have to supply certain tax-related info and turn in your passport. The consular officer overseeing the proceedings must sign an attestation saying that in his opinion you're not off your nut. The papers will then be forwarded to the U.S. state department, which in the fullness of time will issue you a Certificate of Loss of Nationality. You're officially un-American. Lotsa luck.
from
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_229.html
Although, honestly, I'm not sure where you are going to be happier unless you've got a lot of money. All the good places have a whole lot of socialism you'll have to deal with (from healthcare to 5 weeks of vacation)
I never thought I would say this, because I always thought that no matter how disappointed in the Republican Party I was that I needed to go to the polls and vote Republican because the Democrats would be so much worse. I really don't think so anymore.
"The government's view of the economy can be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." ~ Ronald Reagan
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson
When your done gnashing your collective teeth. Somebody in his district might try recommending a solid conservative to primary this piece of crap with.
Guess he was the rino nobody knows.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Maybe someone might at some point in the future. That is months or years off. That does nothing to help the issue now, this summer when we need it.
Where is all of the effort that was put forth for the immigration fight?
from Joe Monahan's New Mexico Politics blogspot:
"More than one astute observer has remarked that NM GOP Sentor Pete Domenici's approval rating slide in the Survey USA poll to the anemic level of 51% is due not only to his being tainted by the US attorney scandal and his hang tough policy over Iraq, but also because of his embrace of the immigration bill which has proved highly unpopular among conservative Republicans. Up for re-election in 2008, and maybe with that Survey USA poll in the back of his mind, Pete switched sides and voted with the majority to kill the controversial measure Thursday, as did Dem Senator Jeff Bingaman."
No question this turnabout on the war support is equally motivated by his re-election prospects.
Disgraceful.
Surely there is somebody, some stud in the state senate, or high-powered businessperson. All it requires is conservative values and some name recognition.
It's war -- so when can we start shooting back at the enemy Democrats?
Domenici has always been somewhat of an anomaly in New Mexico politics, as the state is pretty much a haven for democrats. I think he has only survived due to his ability to send money home...
"War is a continuation of politics by other means."
(Paraphrased, of course.)
All wars are political actions undertaken by political authority.
Wars of vital defense can be carried on indefinitely with no loss of political will. If your country is literally at stake, then there is small chance of a surrender lobby developing.
However, a republic like the United States is absolutely not built (politically speaking) to fight a war like in Iraq. Quitting is too easy, and the downside will take time to manifest for us.
Sure, the Iraqis might slaughter each other, but Americans are pretty good at ignoring the plight of others around the world. Which is not necessarily a bad thing in many cases.
A republic is ill-suited to nation building, as the downside is high and the outcome uncertain.
Everyone should have seen this coming.
Do not start a long-lasting war of choice if you are heading up a republic. The people will get tired of the mess and head for the hills, unless the consequences are the end of the republic. You should understand the country you live in, and the people who surround you.
What you're asking the U.S. public to do is stick it out through a major reconstruction effort when many of the major beneficiaries are busy shooting at us. The average American doesn't like the place, doesn't like spending the money or the blood, and doesn't give a rip if they all kill each other.
The potential threat from Iraq is not sufficient to keep the U.S. public united around this war of nation building.
It never was.
the threat from Al-Qeda? We have seen what they can do. What are the consequences to this nation if we surrender Iraq to Al-Aeda along with their oil supply? That seems to be a sufficient threat.
to the threat from the Democratic Party, the Left in general, the MSM and feckless politicians. But I repeat myself.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
Very well said.
Attacking Domenici on this is roughly analogous to the ill-tempered attacks on Kyl for supporting the Dispossession bill. Disagree with him? Fine. But going right from disagreement to angry snarls is foolish and counterproductive. Domenici has a lifetime American Conservative Union rating of 75.
And of course it may be necessary to point out that we have gone through a whole host of deadlines and timetables in Iraq -- elections, Constitutions, etc -- with only mixed success. At some point, even good patriotic men are going to throw up their arms and wonder why our soldiers and marines are enduring the snipers and roadside bombs for the blasted place.
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And the Lord upon the Golden Horn is laughing in the sun.
it is time for his constituents to get on the phone with him about Iraq and let him know that he really out to a) listen to the generals and b) let things run their course.
Romney or Fred.
Current funding goes fully through September. I'm not sure that Domenici said he would vote with the Democrats, he's just trying to cover his ass. Richard Lugar essentially said the same thing - he would not vote with the Democrats.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
The bill that Lugar, Domenici, Voiovich and others support is the Alexander/Salazar bill, which provides for a continued military presence in Iraq, with a "different mission" to "protect American interests". Even if that is the bill that is adopted, I don't it changing a whole lot. There isn't really much support for the Feingold/Reid/Murtha position. The troops aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
These people will not abandon their Party or the chance for Iraq to succeed because of some ISG report, which is very flawed but is a ready-made excuse being forced into the shape of a strategy.
Before the ISG report was released, there was media chatter about how the President might use it as a "face-saving" way to cut and run from Iraq.
These Senators need to put away the newspapers and stop watching the MSNBC sportscaster.
in Iraq, for his own political benefit.
he's just trying to cover his ass
Excellent! We have thousands of troops RISKING their asses, in 100+ degree heat in the fights around Baquabah and elsewhere, and Profile In Courage Pete is trying to triangulate his image.
I'm not sure that Domenici said he would vote with the Democrats... Richard Lugar essentially said the same thing - he would not vote with the Democrats.
I'm sorry, Profile Pete and Stonewall Dick Lugar, but you're making it sound like you're starting to wobble. JUST what al Qaeda wants to hear! JUST what Zawahiri told the other jihadhis would happen: America's leaders can't take the pressure and will eventually crack. Now, maybe Profile and Stonewall plan to stand by the President in the end. Maybe the esteemed and sophisticated Senators are simply attempting a nuanced political maneuver.
The problem with that is that al Qaeda doesn't do nuance, and neither does the Arab street. They do big picture. And, the picture that Profile Pete and Stonewall Dick are painting in bold media brushstrokes is of a Senate that's losing its nerve. That lacks a spine.
Profile Pete needs to explain this move of his, REAL soon and in REAL good detail.
"Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?" (Macaulay)
thanks bro
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson
These guys aren't exactly a profile in courage, that's for sure.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
on the History Channel yesterday. I think GWB is the only person in our government who is as stubborn as our Founding Fathers. The point was also made that the war was not won on the ground here, it was lost in the British Parliament. A Parliament packed with the same type of feckless politicians that we currently have representing us.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
A third of the country was actively collaborating with the british. Another third could care less and wanted the whole thing done. Washington masterfully handled his enemies here. Sure he was stubborn but he was sly like a fox. He skillfully manipulated a congress that was willing to stab him in the back at every turn. He communicated his case to his men and the public at large.
Washington continuously put one over on congress. He had them guessing on his supply situation. He managed to trick them into sending his rivals off into useless situations. He got the people he wanted in the positions he wanted them. Von Steuben is the classic example.
GWB has stones I'll gladly acknowledge that. He has none of the other characteristics. If Washington , Franklin or Madison were CINC today they would have had Pelosi and Reid shooting each other.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
“Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15.”
-Ronald Reagan
"What to do when Iraq falls apart and the terrorists assume control of the country and its oil supply when we beat a hasty retreat?"
One of the reasons that America is losing interest in the war, is that these predictions seem hard to believe.
I'm not seeing much evidence the government is in danger of falling. But just for the sake of argument, let's say the it does. It'd then be the Shiites dominating the Sunnis. I don't see Al Quaeda making much progress here.
I'm also curious about when Iraq won't be dependent on us for stability. Is there some milestone when we can leave? Wouldn't it be good to decide that before the fact, so it doesn't seem like "a hasty retreat"?
I'm not interested in starting to pull out now, when the news from the surge is pretty good. But I think it's past time to start planning ahead for that day when we do.
to reduce forces and leave just enough to handle...
military action againsy Iran!
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson
accentuating the positive...devine gamecock
but if he closes Gitmo...gulp...
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson
We flipped him on Amnesty. He's amenable to pressure.
Pete Domenici is up for reelection in '08, and he's in trouble because he personally sought the ouster of US Attorney David Iglesias from New Mexico. He figures he needs to go against the war in Iraq in order to retain votes against his Democratic opponent in '08.
Pete Domenici is not acting on conviction. He's a selfish politician who thinks only about himself and getting reelected.
From the Alburquerque Journal:
Domenici called Bush's senior political adviser, Karl Rove, and told him he wanted Iglesias out and asked Rove to take his request directly to the president.
Domenici and Bush subsequently had a telephone conversation about the issue.
I can understand the re-election argument, but it doesn't explain why he would choose now to take this position. Why not wait until September? His argument is that the Iraqi government isn't making enough progress. If true, it would be just as good an argument in September as it is today. If not true, he saves himself looking dumb. What's two and a half months? The election year is still months away at that point.
I have yet to hear a really convincing explanation. Most of the articles and blogs I've read don't even touch it, except by hinting at the re-election issue.
"I should be allowed to think" -- John Linnell
1 - Pete has just finished an exhaustive study of the situation in Iraq; silence now; the possible consequences of appeaseing statements now; and the liklihood of success and the consequences of appeasimg staments at later dates and determined that he will embolden our enemies less by speaking out now.
ROFL?
2 - An early 20s staffer he trusts suggested it
3 - Lugar envy
4 - Off his meds
5 - Wanted press
6- Cares more about being lauded for predictions that victory
7 - lack of character
8 - thinks he may be dying
9 - Warner guilt
10 - wants to be invited to Labor Day lib parties after being snubbed for 4th parties
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson
There are different consequences to speaking out now. It's better to be seen making an independent decision than caving in to pressure. It's better to be seen seeking a compromise than being forced into one. The scary thing about this is the strong conviction it implies that he will be forced to cave two and a half months from now.
"I should be allowed to think" -- John Linnell
The Institution is corrupting of its members. They care more about the Senate than their country. They care how they are seen. Well, they could be seen as having courage by exercising it, but they don't.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson
...(I won't say where) that it is now more probable to win three elections in a row for a House seat than it is to win one re-election to the Senate. That makes the Senate much more sensitive to public sentiment than it was intended to be.
Maybe we just need to repeal the 17th....
"I should be allowed to think" -- John Linnell
one's perception of We The People as well as themselves.
Yes, repeal it. That's a better Px than mine.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson
...he's in trouble because he personally sought the ouster of US Attorney David Iglesias from New Mexico.
Sure - the average New Mexican really cares who is and is not their US Attorney. Truly.
He figures he needs to go against the war in Iraq in order to retain votes against his Democratic opponent in '08.
Absolutely - because throwing the base of your own party under the bus always works wonders for your electoral chances.
Pete Domenici is not acting on conviction. He's a selfish politician who thinks only about himself and getting reelected.
Which would of course make him a - oh, what is the word I'm looking for ... ah, that's right! - politician.
Other than that I agree completely.
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So libs, how's that Congressional Resolution to end The War™ coming along?
Since the story of the Domenici involvement in the firing of Iglesias broke in March 12th, his approval has gone down to the lowest point since this pollster has been tracking it. Click on graph below.
with the statistic that the approval rating of a man who has been in the Senate since, what, 1972 is at it's lowest point since mid-2005?
All this of course assumes that the Fired Attorneys™ kerfuffle will, like Libbygate™, still be front burner stuff by Memorial Day 2007 (fully 14-months before the 2008 election) - a bet I for one would not be willing to take.
But by all means, don't stop thinkin' about tomorrow.
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So libs, how's that Congressional Resolution to end The War™ coming along?
You fail to appreciate the sudden, sharp drop that occured right after the story broke on his involvement in the attorny scandal. His approval is the lowest since at least 2005 which is the latest figure shown in the graph. Again, it's his numbers right before and right after the story that matter. I don't know what's your point in bringing up his whole senate career.
and getting worse. For whatever wikipedia is worth it has the current make up as 50%D, 33%R, and 17%I so be thankful that there is only one Senator from NM that votes blue.
Needs to be respectfully engaged on this.
He needs to hear from real Republicans that he should reconsider his stand.
I think Lugar heard from a lot of people - I think it will temper his stand.
The US attorney 'scandal' is total bs. There is no there there.
It is more of a put up empty bunch of pap than Plame.
It is a cynical way for the MSM to try and pretend things are not as they are.
It is the dems trying to pretend the President cannot pardon and commute.
Secret Service or the FBI at my door. I can't think of one.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.