Just a Bad Idea

By streiff Posted in Comments (18) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

The universe is filled to the gills with bad ideas. Some ideas are bad because they just won’t work. Some ideas are bad simply on their own merits. What these types of bad ideas have in common is that they just won’t die. Today Max Boot (who I generally think reasonable) and Michael O’Hanlon (who does have really, really great hair) join forces to promote an idea that won’t work, is genuinely bad, and, like other bad ideas, just won’t die.

Read on.

America is a land of immigrants. Their spirit of resolve, adventure, hard work and devotion to an idea bigger than themselves has made this country great. Whatever one thinks of the immigration debate today, particularly the problem of illegal immigrants, foreigners have played a central role in the building of America. Many have done so as soldiers, among them Baron von Steuben and the Marquis de Lafayette in the War of Independence.

Now is the time to consider a new chapter in the annals of American immigration. By inviting foreigners to join the U.S. armed forces in exchange for a promise of citizenship after a four-year tour of duty, we could continue to attract some of the world's most enterprising, selfless and talented individuals.

Nice sentiment to be sure. Once one leaves aside the fact that Lafayette, von Steuben, Kosciusko, Pulaski, Lee, de Kalb, and others flocked to the Americas because of the professional opportunity offered one finds a very thin gruel here. Large numbers of recent immigrants served in our Civil War, on both sides, some with distinction and some not so much.

It is difficult to see what the problem is that Boot and O’Hanlon wish to accomplish by this measure. In what passes for their thesis statement:

Not only would immigrants provide a valuable influx of highly motivated soldiers, they would also address one of America's key deficiencies in the battle against Islamist extremists: our lack of knowledge of the languages and mores in the lands where terrorists reside. Newly arrived Americans can help us avoid trampling on local sensitivities and thereby creating more enemies than we eliminate.

Skeptics might point out that in the just-concluded fiscal year, the military met most of its recruiting and retention goals. But this was done only by relaxing age and aptitude restrictions, allowing in more individuals with criminal records, and greatly increasing the number of recruiters and advertising dollars. Although we generally support what has been done to date, the logic of these measures cannot be pushed much further.

Skeptics would actually point out a lot more. They would point out that there is no guarantee that the immigrant population attracted to military service would be English fluent. That there is no guarantee they would be medically qualified. That they would not have a criminal record or were free of connection to the very jihadist organizations we were recruiting them to combat. And there is no guarantee they could either complete basic training or their initial enlistment and calls into question exactly what we would do with a soldier from, say Saudi Arabia, who had completed a combat tour in Iraq and was discharged for disciplinary reasons prior to completing his enlistment. Would we give him a green card? Make him a citizen? Or deport him to Saudi Arabia?

Skeptics would also point out that the relaxed age limits accounted for less than 400 enlistment contracts, that the aptitude standards remain higher than they were during the Reagan years, and that a lot of the people Boot and O’Hanlon would recommend enlisting, illegal aliens, are de facto felons and ineligible to enlist even with a waiver.

Skeptics would also point out that advertising and recruiters actually produce recruits where pie-in-the-sky schemes don’t.

Some might object to our proposal on moral grounds, arguing that it is wrong to rely on "mercenaries" and to use such incentives to get prospective immigrants to fight. We disagree. For one thing, we already rely on tens of thousands of real mercenaries: the security contractors the U.S. government employs from Colombia to Iraq to make up for lack of troops. Immigrants who enrolled in our armed forces would be more valuable because they would be under military discipline and motivated by more than just a paycheck.

Some might object to a profoundly dishonest line of argumentation.

Those men, like those in Blackwater Consulting and DynCorp, are not mercenaries under any definition recognized anywhere. The key words being “the security contractors the U.S. government employs.” They are employed by the US government. Sort of like US troops in that respect. They don’t make up for a “lack of troops.” The men employed by the security contractors do not tend to be 17-21 year old high school grads. They tend to be retired military, or military officers and non-commissioned officers with ten or more years of service. They have highly specialized skills you aren’t going to find in a Middle Eastern, or now European, souk. They operate in areas, like Columbia, which cannot accept the presence of US troops for reasons of sovereignty or national pride or because of regional politics. Recruiting foreign troops will do nothing to make security contractors unnecessary.

Despite growing anti-Americanism, U.S. citizenship is still one of the world's most precious commodities, so there should be no shortage of volunteers. Since proficiency in English would presumably be important for those joining the armed forces, we might focus on South Asia, anglophone Africa, and parts of Latin America, Europe and East Asia (the Philippines would be a natural recruiting ground) where English is common as a second language. These regions have more than 2 billion people, tens of millions of whom reach military age each year.

Once one assumes away the diplomatic dimension of raiding nations for their young men to fight in our wars, this idea seems like a winner. Do we think countries would allow the US to actively recruit on their soil? And if we can’t recruit in the open and pre-screen applicants how would this system possibly work?

The problem would not be the size of the likely applicant pool so much as our ability to vet individuals for their abilities, their dependability and their commitment. Screening would have to be done to ensure that would-be terrorists did not gain access to the armed forces through this program. That might complicate the process of recruiting from certain countries, especially in the Middle East, but it would hardly put a huge dent in the likely applicant pool.

Ever the masters of understatement, these two. It would seem to me that the difficulty of screening Middle Eastern applicants would basically rule out recruiting from the Middle East. And if we can’t recruit from the Middle East then the purpose of this scheme is called into question.

Foreign legions were fashionable for a couple of centuries. At one time there were several Irish regiments serving in France, Spain, and Austria. The Swiss served in France and the Papal States. The French and Spanish Foreign Legions still survive, though the Spanish Foreign Legion is only nominally so. The reason they have fallen from disfavor is that as warfare has advanced the need for mere cannon fodder has receded. At one time a French speaking officer giving orders to boys fresh from Connaught was not a problem so long as they understood enough French to know when to march and fire in unison. This is no longer the case and hasn’t been the case for 40 years.

I am not a proponent of the draft but the draft is merely the wrong idea. Using military service as a path of immigration seems to me to not only reprehensible on its merits but unworkable and inefficient on its face. This is a truly bad idea.

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Just a Bad Idea 18 Comments (0 topical, 18 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »

And I use that word in this context as Mark Twain would; accompanied in a tone somewhere between a sneer and a snarl, with a certain weary disgust for our educational system mixed in.

I expected better from Boot.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

Write it down, look at it, and you see human compassion and benevolence, a willingness to serve a country in order to be an official part of it.

But we're talking about war. I've heard this said about other matters, and it applies just as strongly here: war is not a time for social experiments.

Gawd, that's a dumb idea.

Why would we do this when all branches are currently meeting their enlistment goals??

The Army had to accept a few more non-HS grads this year than in the past, but tapping into the current immigrant population would not solve this - most of them are have not completed high school.

BTW, you can currently enlist in any branch of the service with a 'green card', there's no requirement to be a citizen. Additionally, there's no cap on green card recruits.

I spent over 5 years recruiting - we weren't supposed to 'sell' citizenship although the word was out in the immigrant communities that you can expedite your citizenship if you enlist.

Si vis Pacem, Para Bellum

For years, I have known that my key flaw is a penchant for believing that having thought about a subject for 15 minutes, or perhaps read a book on it, I am an expert in a field in which other, weaker-minded men have spent a lifetime of earnest toil.

It appears that I am not alone in this error.

These two fields (immigration control and military force levels) take their respective specialist many years to master. To suggest such a simple fix for two complex problems gives one cause to ponder the depths of human naïveté.

--
Evil men hide from the truth, but good men stand upon it.

...that while I share Socrates' key flaw I most decidedly do not want to be inable to indulge it. The ability to engage in instant online pontification on any blessed topic that comes to hand is starkly necessary for my further marital bliss.

I'm sure that at least some of you gentlemen - and ladies, of course - are nodding your heads in agreement right now.

Moe

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

Just who do these people nominate to be the next Valerian ?

He wasn't even from Rome, but may have been the best* of the Emperors. Surely if these fellows are good enough to bleed for our nation, they are good enough to be its rulers, aren't they?

--
Evil men hide from the truth, but good men stand upon it.

(*On a scale of my own choosing. And I am the best one to choose the scale, for I have thought about this for 15 minutes AND read a book on it.)

the whole idea is just a plot to get Arnold Schwarzenegger elected President!

(lol @ your disclaimer)

in all seriousness, I do have some sympathy for the idea, but the problem with screening are major enough to almost certainly make it unworkable. the recruiting issue is also a difficulty well raised.

(and I am qualified to say this because I have not spent even 15 minutes thinking about it and have only skimmed the post to boot (sic)!)

When the Russians decided to counter attack the salient containing the German Sixth Army in Stalingrad in late 1942, the Russians chose to simultaneously attack the sections of salient held on opposite sides by Germany's Romanian and Hungarian allies. The Russians fully, and rightly expected, the allies to put up a less spirited defense than if the positions were manned by German troops. The Russian pincers closed in short order as troops of both allies lacked the stomach for the fight.
The Germans lost 250,000 men in losing Stalingrad, losses they were never able to recover from.

Since they want people who "speak the language" What they seem to be saying is we need to invite large numbers of young muslim males into the country and teach them to use weapons.

Gee, what could possibly go wrong?

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

Horribly ignorant of the real situation they (and the above posters, including the OP) prove themselves to be with this thread.

The Facts:
The US Armed Forces have accepted foreign nationals since the American Civil War into our ranks with the promise of an easier road to citizenship than they would have had otherwise. Currently, some 3-5% of the Armed Forces consist of these foraign nationals. And that is not to include those from Puerto Rico, Canada, the Phillipines, the RMI, FSM and Palau.

We Already Do It. We have Done it for Over a Century. It has worked fantastically thus far and there is no reason that said success should change.

"Always be honest with yourself even if you are honest with no one else...
...It helps you keep track of your lies..."
--Myself

Raven, but the proposal is not for enlisting legal immigrants it is for recruiting non-immigrants for military service based on the promise of a green card after a completed enlistment.

I don't think anyone is ignorant of the fact that we enlist legal immigrants.

I would point out in regards to your laundry list of countries that 1) Puerto Ricans are American, 2) Canadians have to have a green card to enlist, 3) Filipinos have not been directly recruited since 1992 when we close Subic/Clark and abrogated the 1947 treaty allowing Filipinos, absent a green card, to enlist, 4) for enlistment purposes citizens of the RMI, FSM, and Pulau are considered US citizens (see para 5(D)).

That was not was said in ANY of the previous posts or in the original post. If that is what this thread is about, then that is what should have been said.

However, looking at the US Army Recruiting operations in Europe, I must still say that we already do exactly what you are now telling me was the point of this thread.

"Always be honest with yourself even if you are honest with no one else...
...It helps you keep track of your lies..."
--Myself

From a pull quote in my story and backed up by the link to the WaPo editorial in the Above the Fold section:

Now is the time to consider a new chapter in the annals of American immigration. By inviting foreigners to join the U.S. armed forces in exchange for a promise of citizenship after a four-year tour of duty,

Farther down another pull quote.

Some might object to our proposal on moral grounds, arguing that it is wrong to rely on "mercenaries" and to use such incentives to get prospective immigrants to fight.

US Army recruiting operations in Europe is limited to recruiting US citizens living abroad, typically dependents in the DODDS. They can't recruit non-citizens.

I had read that differently.

However, We Can recruit non-US citizens in Europe. We just have to get them a Green Card before they proccess...

"Always be honest with yourself even if you are honest with no one else...
...It helps you keep track of your lies..."
--Myself

My neighbor Norman Gammon (recently deceased and now I look after his wife a bit) told me he was Canadian and joined the U.S. Military and fought in WWII. The Uber-surprise.. he was French-Canadian of all things. He was a surveyor postwar and invented this...
http://www.mytoolstore.com/gammon/gammon.html

He told me something like it put him on the fast track/auto entry for US citizenship... can't remember which one. It worked out for him so all the nay sayers are 'wrong' on this one.

This is/was/could be a great program... as long as the entry pool is from selected countries. I'd think 4 years as a Marine will do a lot to make you 'join the culture'.

However, on the flip side. I mean come on... are we really going to let Saudi's, Pakistani's, Iraqi's into the army en masse? Beyond the WWII segregation... where Japanese-Americans only fought in the European campaigns; it would still be a bad idea these days. Too many secrets and proceedural things would get let out. Plus in this PC world... all of that would be called racism/religious discrimination. Didn't some Lebanese guy go awol? Wasn't the guy that blew up his company tent in Iraq/Kuwait a islamic sympathiser. This would just be begging for more.

So... this was a great program and it could be great again... however with rules that will never stick in this day in age probably not.

PS. We have a problem with gang-bangers in the military right now. That would be nothing compared to the problems that COULD occur here.
"Took the nickname Troll long before BlogTrolls existed..."

Even Americans. Try to join sometime, you might be surprised at how hard it is these days.
And "gang-bangers" are not as big a problem as people seem to like to suggest. Just as drugs aren't or other criminal activities. They do exist and are problems, but certainly not endemic.

"Always be honest with yourself even if you are honest with no one else...
...It helps you keep track of your lies..."
--Myself

...who should be trained by our military are Iraqis and Afghanis who wish to serve in their own armies.

 
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