The Resolution came, the Resolution went

The question was: "Will the Democrats applaud after the vote is announced?"

By Mark Kilmer Posted in Comments (24) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

The internet is a fine thing. I watched the vote on H.Con.Res. 63 with a fellow RedStater – two locations, two screens – trading notes. I tallied the R's as they defected; he speculated as to the names of the two Dems were who supported the troops. The question was: "Will the Democrats applaud after the vote is announced?"

Nancy tapped then banged her gavel: 246-182. Fewer than sixty-percent of those voting (57.5%) cast their ballots to start the process of defunding the troops. Fewer than twenty Republicans (17) cast their ballots against this country's mission. I assume that each of them – Mike Castle (DE), Howard Coble (NC), Tom Davis (VA), John Duncan (TN), Phil English (PA), Wayne Gilchrist (MD), Bob Inglis (SC), Tim Johnson (IL), Walt Jones (NC), Ric Keller (FL), Mark Kirk (IL), Steve LaTourette (OH), Ron Paul (TX), Tom Petri (WI), Jim Ramstad (MN), Fred Upton (MI), Jim Walsh (NY) – will either switch parties or face a primary challenge next year*, but that is a part of the game. This vote should not have been a game, even though it meant nothing but an opportunity to strike a posture hip with the press corps and the lunatic fringe of the Democrat Party, better know to Democratic politicians as The Base.

Jim Marshall of Georgia and Gene Taylor of Mississippi, Democrats both, really do deserve praise for their thoughtfulness, their consideration for our country and for our Armed Forces. It's interesting to note that Representative Taylor is a freshman congressman, part of what the Democrats have characterized as the GET OUT OF IRAQ NOW! class. He represented part of the Democrats' asserted electoral mandate to go all Okinawa Jack Murtha on us.

(* - The exception is Ron Paul, of course. By all accounts, they love him in the 14th and everyone knows what we're getting from him when the people in the 14th reelected him. He is a pro-life libertarian, complete with his eccentricities.)

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Now it goes to the Senate for a vote Saturday. IF. I watched this morning as Mitch McConnell told Harry Reid that Republicans wouldn't allow a cloture vote unless they could also debate and vote on Judd Gregg's measure, the one which says that Congress will not take funds from the troops. Reid said they would vote on the House measure and that's all. Then he conceded something: he'd let the Republicans have a vote on John McCain's measure, which is one of those convoluted things about benchmarks. Not even John McCain wanted a vote on McCain's measure at that point, but the Democrats didn't relent. They wanted to choose the GOP measure which was discussed.

Let's look at the makeup of the Senate right now, with Senator Johnson of South Dakota incapacitated at the moment. Not counting Johnson, there are 49 Republicans, 48 Democrats, Bernie Sanders, and Joe Lieberman. Sanders is a Socialist, and he will caucus with the Democrats on the war, while Joe Lieberman probably would not. This would give the pro-troops a 50-49 plurality. Throw Johnson's proxy in – though it doesn't work that way – and it is an even split with Dick Cheney breaking the tie. This right now has everything to do not with cloture or passage, but with the Democrats' grasp on setting the agenda.

But the above 'graph is meaningless, as is the one above that. None of this matters. It was easy to forget this while watching the vote Friday afternoon, as it's politics. It is Congress voting. A political junkie eyeing this might have his mind tell him: THIS IS EXCITING! THIS IS A BIG DEAL! POLICY HANGS IN THE BALANCE!

Nope. Words like "important" and "momentous," though used, had no place in Congress on Friday. The 428 people who voted enjoyed a chance to vent in one manner or another, for or against the greatness of this country. And the vote boiled down to that, but it did not mean a whit.

I hope Mitch McConnell and Trent Lott know that after the sorry and inconclusive show in the House of Representatives, the World's Least Deliberative Body, on Friday afternoon, the Senate vote means even less.

The question was: "Will the Democrats applaud after the vote is announced?" C-SPAN cut the sound, which happens sometimes, but members in the front could be seen bringing their hands together in triumph.

The victory we will applaud is taking shape now in Baghdad.

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The Resolution came, the Resolution went 24 Comments (0 topical, 24 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »

One Way Stox

Did I just read that Bush will propose statehood for Iraq?

no by streiff

you didn't

And it has been a very long time coming for him. Hopefully they will find somebody to challenge him in 2008.

This would give the pro-troops a 50-49 plurality. Throw Johnson's proxy in – though it doesn't work that way – and it is an even split with Dick Cheney breaking the tie. This right now has everything to do not with cloture or passage, but with the Democrats' grasp on setting the agenda.

There are Republicans in the Senate who are most definitely not our our side on this issue. Certainly a few (like Snowe), maybe as many as a half dozen. Then there are others who haven't really picked a side (like Coleman).

Words like "important" and "momentous," though used, had no place in Congress on Friday.

I disagree about the stakes. I think this is a big deal. The world is watching. Our troops are watching this, our allies are watching this, and our enemies are watching this. And it tells them all the wrong thing. That we are looking for any way out and surrender is inevitable. It is just a matter of time.

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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

I had forgotten Snowe, Collins, et al. Voinovich made some noises this afternoon, as well, but I could have misinterpreted.

Does it matter what the enemies see coming from the Congress on this? It might make the overconfident, and perhaps some of the dregs won't flee Baghdad before the troops arrive.

Which made we want to vomit. If one gives her the benefit of the doubt and accepts the notion she truly believes the surge is all a tragic miscalculation that will result in the unneeded death of troops, what is there to smile about, unless the real objective was to rebuke and dis the real enemy, Bush. Then Nancy would have something to smile about today.

Today wasn't about the seriousness of events on the ground. It was about Nancy and the rest of her pathetic party's petty hatred of the President and the satisfaction they received by publicly rebuking him on the world stage, the troops, national interest and national security be damned. That's what Nancy was smiling about.

“They chose dishonor. They will have war.” - Winston Churchill

Is all about BDS. She sees him in her coffee.

This was about punishing Bush for her.

--
We would also like to know your advice for somebody like my daughter, who's going to graduate in two years, advice that you would give a young person.

SEC. RUMSFELD: Advice for a young person. Study history.

....is no Freshman. He was elected in 1989, and is a Subcommittee Chairman on HASC.

He also assumed the title of "Worst Congressional Hairdo" once Traficant went up the river.

His hair looks like some kind of dead animal.

I was in a rush and used some bad information.

..... clearly, the Republicans gained strength over the last couple of days, and it ended up unifying them more.

When the R's were in the majority, Hastert would have closed the debate.

It's telling that Pelosi left Skelton out there to close. No Hoyer, no Pelosi closing.... just Skelton.... who probably hated that this resolution was up anyway.

Meanwhile, Putnam, Boehner and Johnson all whacked Murtha for his slow bleed language, without any Democrat standing up.

It was beautiful.

I almost felt sorry for the Democrats when they rose and applauded Sam Johnson after he made them look small and hollow.

Beautiful.

Let's see what the Senate has to offer.

I live in PA congressional district 4, and since Hart lost it to Altmire(he is a complete dope!) I have considered Phil English, of PA district 3, just north of me, my congressman. I called his office and urged told one of his staff that I feel he should vote against the resolution. Much to my disgust, he sided with the Dems. I have devote myself to finding a candidate capable of taking him out in the primary, and winning the general election.
I've also been thinking about the 4th district seat. If Hart doesn't run again, I think that a good candidate to challenge Altmire would be Lynn Swann.

Oh yes, here. "Eccentricities" is putting it mildly. From near the bottom of this 2003 speech:

The panicky effort of the Fed to stimulate economic growth does produce what it considers favorable economic reports, recently citing second quarter growth this year at 3.1%. But in the footnotes, we find that military spending—almost all of which is overseas- was up an astounding 46%. This, of course, represents deficit spending financed by the Federal Reserve’s printing press. In the same quarter, after-tax corporate profits fell 3.4%.

Paul seems to object to military spending on the principle that it's inflationary. Leaving aside that this is weird to start with, someone needs to explain to Paul that the soundest money in the world doesn't do you much good without national security.

Trust me. I live in the 11th District, and I highly doubt any Republican will dare challenge him. Every state senator, state delegate, county supervisor, and city councilman who has an "R" next to their name owes in large measure their elections to Tom Davis.

What might have happened here is Davis could foul up any sort of state-wide senatr run he might have in mind.

But I've followed Davis closely and spent a lot of time working for his campaign. While I'm disappointed, I will jump to his defense. Davis is a serious politician. I'm sure I'll get flammed for this, but Tom is as honest a guy you'll find, and he's a deliberate thinker.

I don't agree with Davis's vote, but I don't begrudge him becasue he's not trying to score points the way a guy like Walter Jones does. He's more of a Ron Paul time, who has real concerns. Davis doesn't have a history of breaking with Bush and has a relatively moderate-to-conservative voting record.

Fairfax County, the heart of his district, is SPRINTING left and if we want ANY congressman from the VA-11 to have an "R" next to his name, its gotta be Tom Davis.

I am willing to let this one go.

-------------------------------------
"As nations can not be rewarded or punished in the next world they must be in this."
- George Mason

expressing in general support for Tom Davis. It sounds to me as if he's been not only a decent Congressman but also a real party builder. Those types are rare, and they ought not to be torn down based on one, non-binding vote.

If I were you, I'd ask him for an explanation of this vote, though.

Tom Davis is a country club Republican. He represents a heavily blue district in Northern Virginia and he votes that way. He's a president of the board of the Republican Main Street Partnership, a group devoted to fighting conservatism at every turn.

Regardless of why he cast this vote it was a shameful act.

I have know Tom Davis since he was a Fairfax County Supervisor from the Mason District. His district leaned democratic. For several years I was finance chairman of the Fairfax Co Republican Party, and Tom Davis was known as an independent republican who appointed more democrats to county commissions, etc, than republicans. He did not rely on the party for any support.

Tom Davis did what he had to do to get elected, so his vote doesn't surprise me given the drift of Northern VA to the left. I refer to No VA as the NY of the south.

Some may believe that Tom is a dedicated republican, but I would refer to him, also, as a
country club republican, who votes his growing liberal district. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen any evidence of his party-building efforts, even though he was chairman of the HRCC.

I no longer live in this liberal bastion of No. VA, and am happy to now enjoy retirement in a solidly republican area of SW FL.

Aside from the above discussion, I wonder if the House republican leadership will take any action to discipline the 17 republicans who voted for this resolution which is the first step toward forcing surrender in Iraq and the war on terrorism.

but I admire your willingness to stand up and be counted. Puts you a few steps up on the Democratic leadership right now.

I'm not embarrassed about my support for the Long War. Jefferson had to deal with it. As the first President that had to stand up to Muslim beliefs, he was shocked to find that kidnapping and ransom were still practiced in the 19th century. Read news accounts from the day and compare what Jefferson had to deal with to what our current President is going through.

Roosevelt had to deal with it. Muslims ransoming Americans. Times were simpler. "I want Perdicarris alive or Rasuli dead." He then sent a cruiser. Foreign policy for dummies.

The '50's saw the twilight of what had been Western Civ's policing of Islamic extremism. Europe was failing. While American efforts at establishing democratic ideals as the cultural norm took place for Western Europe, dwindling European Imperialism took the lid off the box of Islamic extremism. It wasn’t the end of Europe’s attempt at regional hegemony. Britain and France were more than willing to intercede in the efforts at pan-Arabism by fellas like Nasser. If you recall, it was, in 1956, America that stepped forward in the United Nations to end that invasion. And it was Eisenhower’s reliance on the United Nation’s charter, and the appeal to universal rights of self-determination that rang the first toll of the end of Western influence in the East.

With the decline of European hegemony came the concomitant increase in Soviet hegemony. While Europe—French and English--invaded Egypt, Russia invaded Hungary. In 1956, America was able to stand up to "the Good Guys" but was faced down by "the Bad Guys". Under the United Nation's Charter, the Soviet proclaimed, Hungary had a "right to self-determination". The Soviet Invasion was support, for the Hungarian Communist Party, for those rights. Prime Minister Nagy was arrested, a non-communist. Ergo standing in the way of “the rights of self-determination” and then executed two years later.

The lessons of "the Rights of Self-Determination" weren't wasted on the rest of the world. Move forward to the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. As President Carter idly sat by and watched, not only did he ignore one of the most potent anti-Soviet weapons--gained through diplomacy by President Ford and used to great effect by President Reagan--in his arsenal, the Helsinki Accords, he watched dumbfounded as Iran fell to the Mullahs and Afghanistan fell to the Russians. You’ll still hear former-President Carter talk about “the rights of self-determination”. Remember this phrase: “the rights of self-determination”. It will come back to haunt you.

Up until then, what the world knew of Islamic terror had only been visited upon the Israelis, as it had in 1972 during the Munich Olympics. Terror in those days ranged from Red Brigades, the Baader Meinhof Gang, Black Panthers, and the "Patty Hearst Abduction". Ergo, the common thread to today's political mire.

To a vast majority of the political Left, the Romanticism of being in the Weather Underground, or a freedom fighter for Bobby Seale and Huey Newton, or yelling "Pig" at cops, this was Revolution, man! This kind of romantic thinking was exemplified by mainstream groups, e.g., the Presbyterian Church supporting Angela Davis.

Take a look at the famous "Class of '74". Those politicians who were elected for the first time to legislative posts either in statewide or congressional races.

So, on one hand, we have the UN Charter, proclaiming the rights of self-determination. And in 1974, the first election the Lefties would control, following the two-year debacle of the First Gate, we had an election. The Left was fully embracing the “right of self-determination”. In Viet Nam, that meant that our efforts to bring democracy to Asia was just, simply, essentially, only, quintessentially, immorally, totally, only, Imperialism. These little brown men and women should seek to find their own form of government. Imposing the values of democracy was—and is—a form of Imperialism. Unknown to the winners of the “Mandate of 1974” was that the principle of individual merit and worth would be won on the world stage the following year.

It is these leaders, who now hold seats of leadership in state houses and in the Congress who are leading the debate against the Long War today. And they are best represented by the man, elected at their political nadir, President of the United States, James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.

The “Human Rights” clause of the Helsinki Accords was a fundamental shift away from the accepted practice of “self-determination” under the UN Charter. In the first paragraph of Section Seven, you read, “The participating States will respect human rights and fundamental freedoms, including the freedom of thought, conscience, religion or belief, for all without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion.”

This was new, international law. And it was important. According to Natan Sharansky, the Helsinki Accords signaled the end of Soviet oppression.

So, we have an historical turning point. For Lefties? It’s still marching to the “International”. Anti-war, Bobby Seale, Winter Soldier, and Nixon is a whatever.

On the other hand, you have guys like Washington’s “Scoop” Jackson, Warren Magnuson, Barry Goldwater, Abe Ribicoff, Herman Talmadge, Bob Dole, Jacob Javits, Charles Percy, Mark Hatfield, Howard Baker, John Tower, Sam Nunn, James O. Eastland, William Roth, Hubert Humphrey, Stuart Symington, Mike Mansfield…Republicans and Democrats who knew what America stood for and in turn, stood for America.

And now, interposed among these American leaders is the Class of ’74. Standing with the anti-war, anti-democracy, “right to self-determination” model of the Soviet, the terrorists of the Baader Meinhoff, the Leftists of the Palestinian Liberation Organization.

So what is the thread of Foreign Policy coming from these Lefties? Do they acknowledge Helsinki?

Let’s jump forward.

In the past decade we’ve been attacked by Iran, Iraq, Libya, and their proxies. An argument could be made that we’ve been attacked by the Saudis as well, but the discussion of Saudi policy versus governance would be lengthy, so I’ll just posit that the “official” Saudi position has been to support the United States as an ally. (Go ahead and rant off at this point. But what else are stipulations for, but to side-step the grease and go for the guts?)

During this period, the US has attempted peace-keeping. Negotiation. Bribery. Covert and direct aid. We’ve spilled American blood in Germany, Italy, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Israel, Egypt, Crete, Turkey, Indonesia, Yemen…all lost as a result of Islamic Terror. And the list isn’t complete. You’re forgetting the thousands killed on September 11, 2001.

But at that critical moment, a moment where America stood upon the world stage and made one of the greatest political and diplomatic victories of a century…just at that time in 1975 a coup de grace occurred on the world stage. And a coup occurred in America.

Nature abhors a vacuum. Just as it abhorred the political vacuum during the Carter years, government hates the political vacuum we’re dealing with in Congress right now.

And the coup occurred when the men and women at the ramparts of democracy failed to believe in the dream of democracy. Today, to too many people, democracy is a failed policy. The dream of all the world’s people living with the rights to human dignity described by the Helsinki Accords is just another Imperialist, Rethuglican, War-mongering, neo-Nazi plot to subjugate and conquer. Far be it for this writer to point out that sixteen years after the signing of the Helsinki Accords the Baltics would be free of the former Soviet Union, and that Communism would fall. In Poland, Hungary, Latvia, Slovenia, Slovakia…freedom and democracy are lived and practiced. Carter ignored the power of democracy. Carter lost.

And we lived through it. And we’ll live through this. More people will die as we fail to face up to the realities of the world we’re living in. Innocent people. People who didn’t choose to fight. That’s the cost of not living up to your responsibilities. People, real women, college kids, farmers, children get killed. And they will when the Lefties in Congress get their way.

Not that Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children want to fight. But when tasked with the mission, they choose to fight. They go into the battle with full knowledge of the cost of failure. Unlike the men and women of the Twin Towers. Or, the Achille Lauro. Or the men, women and children of Iraq, Kurd, Shia and Sunni. If we don’t choose the mission, the mission will choose us. I just hope few Iraqis will die because America chose not to stand with them.

Oh, and its funny the confluence of events. The “Class of ‘74” and the US Marines? John Murtha—corrupt but not convicted—was first elected to Congress in 1974. See why we study history?

Don't agree with all of it, but still...I would recommend you make this a blog in and of itself.

All too often the long view is eschewed in the quest to swat at the latest bogeyman to pop up on any given trail we happen to be following. We seem to want to fight each fight anew, as if the previous fights never happened. Well thought-out, well written comment.

It does not matter if this is actually a vote with Bush or not since this is a non-binding resolution. Anyone can express their dismay, but it does not change the status quo.

I am opposed to the surge not because I do not think our troops cannot do the job, but I doubt the Iraqis will hold up their end of the bargain. They need to end this sectarian nonsense and tolerate their neighbors of different faiths. If they cannot do this basic reality, no matter how many troops you send to Iraq, the situation will not improve.

The President has not proven to me that the surge will end this sectarian hatred that has existed for many centuries. 20,000 more troops for 4 to 6 months will not solve that problem at all. They might provide some short term relief, but the Iraqis are not going to give up their sectarian passions so easily.

Surging more troops into Iraq without the Iraqis wanting to end their petty sectarian hatred just makes more targets.

I am shocked to see so many people on this blog blindly following the President on this one.

http://michigandersforromney.com/

You do what you need to do in order to win, or you get the hell out and let the bloodbath begin. President Bush has chosen the former, and the Democrats have chosen the latter. It's as simple as that. I think the Democrats are in a morally indefensible position.
You're right in one regard, though. To paraphrase Golda Meier, the Iraqis are going to need to start loving their children more than they hate each other.

A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are made for.

The problem is Bush is not taking a course which will bring victory. Instead, he is throwing together an expansion of the conflict that does not go far enough. More troops are needed and the use of far harsher tactics are necessary if we are going to have any chance of success. Now I am not calling for a Stalin like pacification of East Germany for Iraq, but we need to take the gloves off to deal with the Sunni insurgent/Al Qaeda threat. This can be done if we are willing to put the resources and tactics to work. Instead we are sending in a smaller than needed contigent of troops and not changing the tactics. Bush is fighting a compassionate conservative war.

Fundamentally, the Iraqis need to learn to get along with each other and accept pluralism/tolerance or nothing we do will work.

http://michigandersforromney.com/

 
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