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we learned that a 12-year old girl is capable of being far more compelling than every other speaker on the Dems' Tuesday night agenda.

Guess you missed the speech by the first black President of the United States. It was on just before 10 eastern. C-SPAN has it archived for ya.

"Ron Reagan defines humanity by capacity (which reminds me -- high time we killed and ate Christopher Reeve);"

ROFL! I almost spewed a lung on that one ... but it made me think, with young Ron's attitude, could he be trusted alone with his enfeebled Dad?

With Obama--maybe you don't see it, but it's not just the hype that makes us see it.

I think Republicans and Democrats can see the skills and charisma in each other's politicians, but often can't see the substance. One man's competent boilerplate is another man's eloquent expression of this country's deepest ideals. Part of me was astonished when I realized that my GOP classmates cared about Ronald Reagan like I cared about Bobby Kennedy, and vice versa. (They were also mystified as to how I could find Bill Clinton better looking than George W. Bush; they were convinced it was nothing more than blind party loyalty. I was mystified by their mystification.)

See the seventh comment on this thread if you want to know more about what Me and My Ilk saw in Obama--I'm not getting into specifics on inhospitable terrain, though.

Them grapes is sour, bitter, and bile coated.

You folks over here are just plain morose, nasty, and grim.

"high time we killed Christopher Reeve and ate him"

Tacitus, I like you.  I really, really hope that was a poor attempt at sarcasm on your part, and that I missed the joke.  What did Ron Reagan say to elicit that barb?

Katherine, Katherine, Katherine...

Perception is everything.  Knowing what to say and what to omit can be used to create powerful images and feelings.  Music has a tempo and a rhythym and so does a good speech.  I'll key you into the mechanics of it - then like discovering that the moving creatures at Disneyland are animatronics robots and there are hot, sweaty people inside both Micky Mouse and Donald Duck, the power of carefully chosen words to manipulate your emotions will equally subside.

"If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief - I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper - that makes this country work."

Being black the speechwriter threw in the word "brothers" and "civil liberties" as a symbolic tie-in for oppression and to tap into any collective social guilt.  It works - but only on some who are wanting to be engaged at a certain level.  The words "rounded up" are a tie in to the Jewish round-up by the Nazis.  It's so transparent to anyone who wants to read between the lines and see if they are being manipulated.  Bush isn't rounding families up.  But the choice of words and the subliminal messages they carried worked on you, pushed the right emotional buttons -- because you were primed and wanted to believe it.

No one in that target audience, nor yourself, apparently wanted to ask yourself if you want terrorists running around with an Obama endorsed stay-out-of jail free card in their pocket as they proceed to kill thousands or even millions of Americans.

Words in the mouths of Democratic politicians mean very, very little.  They want your vote and they'll have it.  Disneyland wants the money for a ticket - they'll get that too as long as they put up a good enough show and keep illusions real.  Speechwriters earn good money putting on a show.  They have their work cut out for them as they try and make Kerry-Edwards appear like a panacea for the imagined Fourth Reich called "Amerika".  

Kerry is a stereotypical politician. He has to consult a poll to tell him which way is west even when the sun is setting.  Moral compass?  He can't tell where he's going because the needle always points to him.  Edwards is a trial lawyer, not that there's anything wrong with that... except perhaps for the fact that almost every trial lawyer I know doesn't seem to realize that "The Price is Right" is a game show not a code of ethics.

Subliminal tricks are used all the time.  When you're aware of what goes on behind the curtains it's no longer a mystery and they lose their power over your mind and emotions.

Good luck Katherine...if those words inspired you to send your resume to these folks and their speechwriters...you'll need it.

;-)

At the Donkey Convention.

Huh.  This after, you know, explicitly mentioning it.  Right, then.

I'm convinced.

You're missing the joke.  See "capacity," see the speech text.

Well, there's no proving either way, of course, but....my guess is that without the New Yorker piece and weeks of breathless swooning to prep you for the experience, he'd have come across as merely an above-par, but not extraordinary, speaker.

As I told Moe elsewhere, given enough hype, even The Phantom Menace was a hit.

My prediction: Obama Barack, liberal superstar -- yes.  Obama Barack, future President -- not a snowball's chance in Tuvalu.

"If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief - I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper - that makes this country work."

SDAI Tech1 wrote:

Being black the speechwriter threw in the word "brothers" and "civil liberties" as a symbolic tie-in for oppression and to tap into any collective social guilt.  

Sdai, sdai, sdai, the "brother's keeper" comment here is blatantly a Biblical reference, not a shout out to all Obama's hommies.

My prediction: Obama Barack, liberal superstar -- yes.  Obama Barack, future President -- not a snowball's chance in Tuvalu.

I agree.  The first black president will almost certainly be a conservative who succeeds by running against type.  I imagine the same will be true for the first woman president as well.

And who knows, they may both happen in 2008.  Let's hear it for Condi!

Morose, nasty, and grim: Never has anyone so perfectly summed up my own attitude toward the world.

"Yes, these cells could theoretically have the potential, under very different circumstances, to develop into human beings -- that potential is where their magic lies. But they are not, in and of themselves, human beings. They have no fingers and toes, no brain or spinal cord. They have no thoughts, no fears. They feel no pain. Surely we can distinguish between these undifferentiated cells multiplying in a tissue culture and a living, breathing person -- parent, a spouse, a child." - Ron Reagan

Let's see, Christopher Reeve. Fingers? Check. Toes? Check. Brain? Check. Spinal cord? Check. Thoughts, fears, pain? Check. Living, breathing person? Check. Human being? Check. Undifferentiated cells multiplying in a tissue culture? Nope. Shucks, looks like he's not to be eaten.

Although I'm suspecting it's on purpose in your case.

Anyway, do let me know what the threshold of physical debilitation is at which point humanity is gone.  While you're figuring it up, meet Peter Singer.

Reporter: "Tom, over five years ago, doctors told Christopher Reeve that he would never walk again, but the resilient actor fought back, struggled against all odds, and has now built his very own Legion of Doom! The once immobile Mr. Reeve's new organization will be commited to world domination and evil. What an inspirational story, Tom."

Odd that Condoleezza Rice would be at the Democratic Convention...

Anyway, do let me know what the threshold of physical debilitation is at which point humanity is gone.

It sounds like you're trying to be sarcastic, but really, it's a very good point.

At what point, despite a living body, is a person no longer effectively human?  Does humanity cease when brain function ceases or does it require complete cellular death?  When does the soul leave the body?

Just because the answers that Singer finds to thses questsions are deplorable, particularly his idea about killing disabled children, doesn't mean that they're absurd questions to ask.

Wow is that condescending.

The Phantom Menace was a hit in that people showed up to watch it. It was not a hit in that everyone went home saying how it was better than expected.

They're monstrous.

At what point, despite a living body, is a person no longer effectively human?

And the answer is: Never.

Just because the answers that Singer finds to thses questsions are deplorable, particularly his idea about killing disabled children, doesn't mean that they're absurd questions to ask.

There are such things as absurd questions and this is on of them.  For a civilized person to even think about killing a disabled child is absurd.  

Man, I have to agree, that was the funniest remark I've seen in days!

Western nations can afford to keep people alive even when they are profoundly disabled and we now have the tools to treat many of their special health problems. That is a good thing, but not all societies have been able to keep these people alive and well and they have been forced to make decisions between putting an unsupportable burden on a poor community or finding the most humane way possible to end that life.

Making a decision that pits a dependent individual against a community isn't easy, but for centuries it was necessary. Those were civilized societies that practiced infanticide for those that were profoundly disabled. They were not cold or heartless people, but practical and loving people who knew they weren't able to offer these people any help, while putting a huge strain on the rest of the community. Civilized people have long shown that they will be as kind and helpful to those who cannot help themselves as they can, but that they know they have to limit that help to the available surplus of the community.

Er....okay.  Not supposed to be.

Look, I'm a fan of oratory, and I don't exclude Dems from that ambit.  Greatest postwar speech on America?  Democrat Adlai Stevenson's '56 address.  (Yes, better than Reagan, albeit barely.)  Already mentioned Cuomo's '84 address as one of the great ones.  Even Jesse Jackson's '88 "God is not finished with me yet" was stellar rhetoric.

Shoot me if I don't think Obama measures up.

Indeed. There are many of use red/swing-staters who aren't entirely comfortable with a foreigner in the White House while we are at war. Plus she's uppity.

I'm assuming that you are agreeing with Tacitus that you are being trolled.

I believe she is a US citizen and I don't buy your analysis.  

However, I don't think it helps when she speaks French during her speech and I think it is unwise to say that America's best face abroad is the Peace Corps especially when  American soldiers are dying fighting terrorists abroad.

That said, anyone want to turn 'em into bandwidth?

because I've never had a chance to ask, but how do you human life as sacrosanct from fertile egg to mouldy grave guys feel about organ donations?

Unrelated, but a reminder for all the young people out there that don't think about death but would like to have their own say in the matter;  Fill out a durable power of attorney and make sure you state your end of life decisions and any organ gifts you'd like to make.  Fill it out today, and save your family some anguished decisions tomorrow.  Its the responsible, even conservative thing to do.

who is resolutely apathetic and therefore ignorant of politics, came in from the other room as I was watching Obama, and said, awestruck, "who is THAT?"  She had no idea, had no idea of the "hype".  And she sat down and listened.

I was already impressed myself, but when that happened, I knew that a star was born.  I don't know much about his politics, but he was confident, charismatic, had a fantastic story, and as for the speech itself?  I have a feeling that he could be reading almost anything so long as it wasn't selections from say, the unabomber manifesto, and there would be many still in awe of his potential.  Take it for what you will.

And I don't find Peter Singer to be particularly civilized, despite his vegan pretensions.

My point, however, is that asking questions isn't wrong, it's the answers that Singer finds.

I find nothing morally wrong with wondering when life begins and ends.  Many believe, humanity begins at conception.  To others, not until birth.

These are both answers to the same question, and I don't see how one can arrive at either answer without asking the question.

The same goes for death.  When is a person truly dead.  There may be brain activity after a person's taken their last breath.  People have been recescitated after having been declared brain dead.  Modern life support systems can keep the lungs moving and the blood pumping for people who would otherwise die.

I am empatically not saying that people on life support should be taken off it, so that they can die naturally.  All I'm saying is that asking "When is a person dead?" is not an unreasonable question.

...but keep believing what you like.

Tac and I have been quite prickly with each other lately, but that line about Reeve made me laugh out loud. You know, we can relax and laugh with each other sometimes. Strangely, he and I share some common ground here, tho perhaps different ways of engaging. I wouldn't in a million years, for example, endorse Coburn's extremism.

You in AZ CD1? I'm about to start actively working for Babbitt's campaign. Can't take another minute of Renzi.

I caught some (but not all) of Obama's speech. He's a good fellow, seems like great guy, and most likely will join the Senate this Fall.

Doubtless, he's a cut above some of the Congressional Black Caucus hacks like John Conyers, Maxine Waters et al.

The problem, though, is style over substance.

There are 3 things I look for in a speech: (1) the credentials,(2) the delivery, and, most importantly, (3) the policies expressed.

On 2, Obama was outstanding.

On 1, his credentials are light, but, likely, soon to become pretty solid.

On 3, sorry, just more platitudes and political pap.

I want to know if Obama supports vouchers. I want to know if he supports pruning back the welfare state. I want to know if he will try to reverse the devasting trends of out-of-wedlock births in the black community. I want to know if he will scale back the war-on-drugs, scale back on counter-productive affirmative action programs.

There are so many challenges facing the black community. The one thing they don't need is a show-horse -- they need a work-horse.

My 2 cents.

And maybe you should post an explanation of the troll for bandwith concept.  I think we could use it on this site.

The keynote address is really to talk about what the Democratic Party is about, and on that he did a stellar job.  If your looking for policy, tune in on Thursday night.  This is Kerry's show, after all, and he's the one laying out the policy.

If you look on the right hand column of the front page, scroll down till you see the Amazon box.

Welcome to the RedState "Turning Trolls Into Bandwidth" Project. As you know, RedState has an active and vibrant community of posters and commenters. Then there are trolls. If we learned anything from the Dean campaign (other than Iowa caffeine is waaay strong) is that a community can help keep the trolls away by donating every time they disrupt the conversation. So, you can help "Turn Trolls Into Bandwidth." Every dollar donated through this page will directly go towards supporting RedStates growing bandwitdth expenses

So feel free to kick a buck or two, then post a comment telling the troll exactly that.

of all modern Democratic conventions, like the usual left-leaning delegates or policy-light keynotes (duh!) is lost on this crowd.  Don't bother, CA.

Generally liberal posts and then this attempt at posing as a mean-spirited conservative.  Post your views if you like, but if you're going to pose, I'm going to donate.

RedState - Turning Trolls Into Bandwidth

Welcome to the RedState "Turning Trolls Into Bandwidth" Project. As you know, RedState has an active and vibrant community of posters and commenters. Then there are trolls. If we learned anything from the Dean campaign (other than Iowa caffeine is waaay strong) is that a community can help keep the trolls away by donating every time they disrupt the conversation. So, you can help "Turn Trolls Into Bandwidth." Every dollar donated through this page will directly go towards supporting RedStates growing bandwitdth expenses.

Tbogg thinks you're funny.  Honestly he does.

I remember as a 13 year old kid (and a very committed Reagan backer) sitting in awe of Cuomo's speech at the '84 convention.  It also goes to show good rhetoric doesn't always sway voters.