Redstate

And I mean hardcore.  Old-school, bring-the-bat-to-the-meeting-with-management railroad union.  Former local president.

When I talked to him last night, he - rather profanely - indicated this strike is illegal, ill-advised, ill-timed, immoral, and if I had thought to ask, he probably would have called it fattening as well.

So I think that the TWU is in deep, deep trouble.

Labor unions contributed over $85 million in PAC, soft money, and individual contributions to federal candidates and parties in the 2004 election cycle, 93 percent to Democrats.

What's $1 million fine/day ??

I totally agree this strike is absurd. The transit workers get excellent pay, excellent benefits and excellent job security for a job that is only moderately difficult physically, and let's face it, not exactly mentally challenging. The union head was quoted as saying that he didn't like that the Governor was telling that to get back to work "...like they are children..." Well, when you act like spoiled children, you get treated like that. It is situations like these and that of the New Jersey Extortion, I mean, er Education Association that make most reasonable people detest unions.

It is situations like these and that of the New Jersey Extortion, I mean, er Education Association that make most reasonable people detest unions.

As one who supports the right to work, I thank them from the bottom of my heart.

I hope Bloomberg gets some sense and re-enacts Reagan's response to the 1981 air traffic controller strike.  13,000 of 17,000+ controllers walked off the job to demand an across-the-board $10,000 wage increase, a 4-day work week, and lifetime retirement benefits after 20 years of service.

Reagan's response?  "Return to work in 48 hours or be terminated.  The FAA will begin taking applications after that time is up."

The result?  Air travel continued smoothly, albeit in a more limited way, as the FAA trained replacements and manned towers as best it could.  11,000 controllers lost their jobs.  75 were indicted.  The PATCO (the controller union) leaders were sent to jail.  Two months later, with only 2/3 the full compliment of controllers, the Congress recommended hiring back some of the terminated strikers.  Reagan refused.  

By 1984 air traffic had increased by 6 percent while there were still 20 percent fewer controllers than had been on the job prior to the strike.

By 2006, aggieben isn't paying for the $770 million retirement package for lazy controllers.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.  What would be really cool is if Bloomberg used Reagan's actual words, verbatim.

I was only very young when that happened so I do not really have much direct memory of it, but in reading about it recently I think it shows true guts for a leader. It would be a refreshing change.

It has been reported that 1,000 have already crossed the picket line. An ultimatum like that would bring a whole lot more back. You would hardly even need replacement workers.

This was an unfortunately selfish strike- no mercy for them. This is sickening. All of that Christmas shopping lost...just as the economy is looking up.

Reportedly, this union only has 3.6 million in cash on hand, does NOT have the support of its parent union, and is losing support in the public. People were sympathetic but now are growing more impatient. I live uptown in Harlem away from all the "chaos" but still am inconvenienced because of the transit strike. I gope they can get back to the table an negotiate. I don't know if the Reagan Termination will work very well, but I predict (uh-oh) that by Friday I can take the M60 to the Airport to visit the fam in Athens (GA).

Oh yeah, if there are any natives around,(cue the violins).. can anyone suggest how I can get to LaGuardia? I live around 135th/Lenox and was wondering what transportation options are available. I pulled my hamstring and can't walk far

Living in New York City, I can say that EVERYONE I've talked to is blaming the union.  If management plays its hand right, it can do significant damage to public perception of public unions.  This could be a turning point.

Now that people are paying attention, I'd like to point out how this fits into the larger context of changing politics in New York City.

Put simply, New York City is no longer the far-left bastion it once was.  If you live here, you can see these subtle changes all over the place.  Since I don't want to bore you with the long list, I'll get to the two biggest pieces of evidence:

1) Cong. Anthony Weiner's (D) success in the democratic primary.  While he didn't win the nomination, he catapulted from total obscurity to serious respectability in barely three weeks.  

Weiner's three primary opponents were all products of the local Dem machine.  While Ferrer won the nomination by securing the backing of typical members of the dem machine, Weiner was the "outsider".  It nearly worked because people here don't fall for the same lefty nonsense they used to fall for.  Say this for NYers: we learn from our mistakes (ie. David Dinkins)

It certainly didn't hurt Weiner to have access to Chuck Schumer's fundraising rolodex.

2) While its no surprise that Bloomy was re-elected, HIS RECORD MARGIN OF VICTORY should cause people to sit up and take notice.

Bloomberg's margin of victory was the largest for any mayor in the history of the city.  That says a lot about the changing nature of this city.

In that context, I think this strike will put the current trend on steroids.  If that happens, it'll make walking around in this freezing cold worth it.

In the meantime, I just hope it warms up in the next few days.

have 3 million dollars.

Bloomberg has promised they will not resume whatsoever until the TWU returns to work. I believe he means that. If your information is correct, by Thursday, they'll no longer be able to produce a $1 million cashier's check, and some union members are going to jail for their contempt. I think, by that point, they will be amenable to returning to work, at least provisionally.

doesn't have sort of authority, it's a state agency. I'm not even sure if Pataki has that authority. I think the state legislature has to do it, like was threatened in the '81 strike.

Just curious - do you think Eliot Spitzer busts this union if they're still not back to work by Thursday? If so, what does that do for his gubernatorial ambitions?

...citing Weiner as an example of a shift to the right?

that that are resulting in the current $1 million dollar fine per day. He is also investigating MTA for illegal bookkeeping (which resulted in a perhaps unnecessary fare hike, and got the labor negotations off to a bad start with the MTA crying poverty). I'd say he has all his bases covered.

As I was about to say to the above commenter, one union does not mean all unions. All but 2 (maybe 3) major city unions (TWU and some healthcare union) endorsed Bloomberg for mayor. I don't think this issue will effect Spitzer's general union support. Frankly I don't think he'll care much about a union that just bankrupted itself anyway.

This isn't a union anti-union issue. This is just a twenty year ritual we like to play in NY.

I'm citing Weiner as an example of how the loony left/Dem machine doesn't have the power it used to have.

The point is that Weiner didn't work his way up through the local machine.

Say what you will about Weiner's tax-hike for productive people (a stupid idea, but the debate never got that far) but look at the rest of his platform:

Middle Class tax cuts and ending city programs that don't get results.

That's not a typical message from the Dems in this city.

This reminds me of the recent, somewhat boneheaded, strike on the part of SEPTA here in Philadelphia a few months ago.  SEPTA employees, notoriously unresponsive to customers/riders, were seeking an extension of their $0 employee contributions to health care premiums as well as looser discipline regulations... sound familiar?

I don't recall exactly how our strike was settled here, but I do know the union came back to work after about a week and they got less than they were publicly demanding.

Both sets should have been fired, ridiculous in general.  Truly obscene the benefits they have and the work effort they put out.

~Big Tom

I'm not siding directly with the TWU, but some of your facts are wrong regarding their "wish list".

First, regarding retirement age, the union is not negotiating for it to be lowered to 50. They are trying to keep it from being raised to 62 from 55. The increase in wages put into the pension fund would be 6% from 2%. These changes would only affect new hires.

This would essentially create a two-tiered system, where all new hires are paying disproportionately more to support veterans pensions. Two-tiered systems in pensions are a way for an employer to force the wages down in a growing economy.

This two-tiered plan would also be illegal. Under the Taylor Law (which makes striking illegal), changing the terms under an old contract would be illegal as well (as opposed to altering the terms).

Only the state legislature can change union pensions. The state legislature, by the way, are the ones who tried lowering the retirement age of some TWU workers to 50, but that law got vetoed. The workers who would have had their retirement ages lowered are the ones with severly health hazardous jobs.

Now, I'm not saying that the union is right. Obviously this strike is messing up things for a lot of people. What isn't being mentioned is how the MTA is using potentially illegal tricks too.

Weiner is a lefty, but if you had any idea about NYC politics the people he were facing were Pelosi/Boxer/Sheehan moonbats and he is just a lefty.

How would one know?

Supporting "the right to work" is one thing.  That's entirely different from supporting the right to have special privileges that are not available to most people, including priveleges that would be considered counterproductive and laughable in the real world.  This isn't about anybody's right to work; it's about a right to be more privileged than most people.  Not something most people would support.

He means the right to work at a job without having to join the union and pay union dues. At many/most places you are forced to pay union dues if you want to have a job there.

It's obvious to most of us that if the MTA authority didn't totally suck (two sets of books, yo-yo surpluses and deficits, just for starters) this whole thing would be a no-brainer.  Unfortunately, they just can't make a great case to seriously lower wage expenses with this kind of track record. You're right that a two-tiered system is a tactic to lower wages, but the state of the economy is not relevant.  However, I don't know that changing the co-payments for new workers would be illegal.


If this is a new contract, any different terms wouldn't be illegal under the Taylor Law, since this is a new contract.  This is not adjusting an existing contract in any way, as far as I can see (although, IANAL).


Also, if only the state legislature can change union pensions, how can this even be a part of contract negotiations?  And why is the retirement age an element of discussion if that's up to the legislature as well?  How are these things elements for negotiation at all, if it's really up to the legislature?

Understood - that makes more sense.  Then who is being thanked, and why?

Judges routinely fine labor unions during unpopular strikes, only to dismiss the fines once the parties come to an agreement. This will be no different. The fine will be withdrawn within 24 ours of an agreement.

It's a Kabuki dance. A well known story, everybody knows how it ends, but everybody has to play their part during the play.

IANAL mean "I am not a lawyer?" Because if it does, I think it's absolutely hilarious that we have an acronym just for that sentence.

This is just the free market at work. The City needs an efficient transit system to grow as large as it is. Without it workers couldn't get across the bridges in sufficient numbers to keep things running in the long term.

To keep the mass transit running they need lots of labor and massive capital outlays. The high capital outlays mean the labor component has huge leverage to get demands met. That's how markets work -- Economics 101. When workers have leverage they push for a better deal -- I know I have personally pushed for a better deal on a number of occasions when the leverage conditions were right.

There will be no mass firing of workers. After a few weeks the parties will come to an agreement that meets part of the demands but not others. New York needs the workers at least as much as the workers need the jobs. The transit workers will be back at work by the end of next week dispensing the hospitality to strangers that New Yorkers are famous for.

It's actually refreshing to see a union more interested in getting a good contract than in electing Democrats.

This was supposed to be a reply to the original story, not to the particular post that it looks like I'm replying to.

Posting after a long day of Christmas Shopping is tricky.

I'm walking on air, I never thought I could feel so freeeeeeee

IANAL

Legal advice from the unqualified being a favorite Internet pastime from time immemorial.

has being qualified (on anything) prevented people from commenting on it? And not just the internet.

135/Lenox to the airport is a straight shot across the Triboro. Use a car service but reserve it a day ahead.

Granted, the international union seems to be the only one with sense in this thing, but can I just ask, what business do government employees have belonging to a foreign organization?

MTA wants to raise the retirement age to 62.  Look, my dad retired at 55; he was NYPD.  The city, for many good reasons, lets the cops and firemen (like soldiers) retire with good pensions & benefits after 20 years.  But there's no earthly reason why you can't drive a bus or a train when you are 60.  It's not heavy physical labor (like construction), it's not that dangerous and it doesn't require the youthful vigor we demand of cops, firemen and soldiers.  

Finally, what's really absurd is extending the union's demands to the token clerks, whose jobs involve no more skill than working at McDonald's.

He looked good on TV, and he spent a lot of money to put his mug there. Everyone was tired of Freddy from his last time out. There was just no way he was going to get any traction because there was no reason to vote against Bloomberg.

Remember why Fiorello LaGuardia ran for mayor (and won) as a Republican? Because the Democrats considered him a goombah greaseball and the Republicans were only too happy to have him be that year's sacrificial lamb. I hope you're right of course, but I just can't imagine how any kind of free-market conservative could ever be elected in this city. Remember the summer of 2004? When New York Magazine ran a cover story on what it would take for Manhattan to secede from the United States?

for the TWU that the folks over at WNYC (the local NPR affiliate) appear to have a lot of sympathy for their cause?  One "reporter" (I believe Beth Fertig) this morning sounded as if she wanted to go carry a sign herself in front of Pataki's NYC office.

"We don't have trains or buses because MTA wouldn't give on $20 million" (paraphrasing her words from memory).

Some NYC residents amaze me; others scare me.

Thank God I am no longer there, even if it is the greatest city in the world....  Damn these mixed feelings, I tell you!

-TS

The strike has people worked up. That is why the strike hits at the heart of so many Americans. Some feel these striking individuals are the Robin Hoods of modern America, sticking up for themselves and trying to get a little from the rich to help pay the poor, well middle class. There is the other part of America that looks at the 8% annual pay increase and is appalled, they wonder how these individuals can want such a large raised locked into a long term contract when many middle income workers are losing their pay. Many steel workers have weighed in on the subject advising that in the last four years there have been many steel mill employees who have accepted pay cuts and reductions just to keep their jobs. They have no sympathy for such an outrageous request as an annual 8% raise. What do you think?

Raymond B

www.voteswagon.com

It worries me that it could be so important in netspeak to disclaim that way, that an acronym enters common usage.

TPetey is thanking the union for being such a bunch of jerks, because public opinion will turn against them more which will make it more likely that the next 'Right to Work' legislation will pass.

For my part, I am thankful that the unions have unionized so many public employees.  At first, I hated the idea of elected people negotiating with unions because they have no personal stake in the outcome and there is no incentive for them to be tough.  Now, I see the silver lining.  The American people have become the employers.  We see our employees' surly service and obscene demands for pay, pensions and perks.

Now that the American people have turned into 'management,' it is less likely that the unions will hold as much sway politically.

IANAC and can often be used in the same context.

I think they only publically said what they did to get away from the courtcase/fines that were enacted.

If they were really serious, they'll take over the local and throw that POS Touissant out of his position.

Comparing his union's demands to Rosa Parks....how long until the full blown race card is played here?

I'm damn angry at this. I fully support the MTA on this and I DESPISE that corrupt, mismanaged agency.

MEMO to the MTA: Automate faster please. The next line Touissant and crew walk should be an unemployment line

What is the "Triboro"? And should I call that 777 car service I see on TV? How much do you think they'll charge for a ride to the airport? If over 20  bucks, should I be adventurous and take a taxi? And what of the "other" cars that are not TLC or Livery?

...I suppose that you're visiting our fair (and extraordinarily liberal) city. If so, I do hope you enjoyed yourself. "Triboro" is the Tri-borough Bridge. From where you are, you'd get onto the bridge at 125th St, putting you on the Grand Central Parkway, which goes right to LaGuardia. From the edge of Manhattan to the airport is about ten minutes if traffic conditions are favorable. Normally about $20 including a tip from a car service, but there may be a premium because of the strike- ask them to tell you the fare when you make the reservation. I can't guess whether you could convince a yellow cab to take you there given the strike but if you can, that's just as good. A yellow would cost maybe $12 plus tip, but they are now charging large premiums because of the strike.

Use google to find a car service. There are hundreds of them. Do it a day or two ahead because they are likely to be completely swamped due to the strike. Good luck.

The elected officials are.  Ever notice that whoever the teachers union backs is the one that gets on the school board?  Notice who negotiates teacher union contracts?   Yeah, the newly elected school board members.  If you're willing to give everything the teachers union wants, you're pro education and the throw money into your campaign to keep you in office.  If you find that they're doing unproductive things, are failing their students, or just can't justify the latest demands, you're anti education, hate kids and are a union buster all at once, money goes to your opponent and you're soon outside looking in and you're replacement is now in on the board negotiating the contracts.

All city government is like this.  You're government employees are commonly members of the AFSCME union and will exploit their cash piles and position as "in the trenches with the experience and knowledge to know who'll be a good leader for the city" to make sure that only the most generous candidates win elections.  

I'm pro-union, in the private sector.  If their isn't a government monopoly on a service, let labor and management hash it out over compensation and benefits packages, a strike only hurts the two parties involved.  But if you're in a goverment job, where no one else is legally allowed to provide a service, I think it's wrong for you to threaten the people who've deemed your job a necessity and pay for it out of their taxes and to walk out and leave the people in a lurch.  If you want to be unionized in a government job, the government should allow private contractors to fill the jobs in the event of a strike, or at least provide the services.

Not a tourist, but I've only been here about 6 months and still getting to know the city. I really didn't know how liberal the city was until I accidentally picked up a copy of the Village Voice. Wow. Again, thanks for your help. Merry Christmas.. and hopefully, when the strike ends I'll be back on the 27th. Hopefully it'll be over by then.  

The Village Voice! Now that brings back memories. It's like Daily Kos, but it doesn't require an internet connection so you can read it in the subway ;-)

With the strike they are using a zone system for cabs.

The zones are:

Zone A - South of 23rd Street in Manhattan;

Zone B - 23rd Street to 60th Street in Manhattan;

Zone C - 60t Street to 96th Street in Manhattan;

Zone D - Manhattan north of 96th Street.

And Queens, Brox, Brooklyn and Staten Island being individual zones.

There is a $10 cap within each zone and a maximum $5 fee for crossing zones.

So the maximum is $15 dollars, which is probably a little cheaper than usual.

except for the part that the people aren't management.  Actually, it's probably more like stockholders than management, but either way, we don't like being plucked this way.  

We have hired out the negotiations, but we own these jobs.  We needed the service (or thought we did) so we hired people to provide it and pay their wages.  When they all gang up against us and treat us like we are sweatshop bullies, at the same time we are treating them better than we get treated ourselves, public opinion is bound to turn.

The teacher's unions are an example of that.  We have come to realize that the union doesn't care about us or our children.  They only care about union power, hence, the drive (yet unfulfilled) for school choice.  The American people won't long take being treated like Rich Uncle Moneybags when our employees don't provide the service for which we hired them.

In the end, as employers, people are likely to recognize that unions in general are insatiable and be less likely to support their political demands.

I wasn't sure if the zone system applied to the airports as well.

It means no yellow cab will leave Manhattan if he only gets an additional $15 to make the trip plus the wait in line for a fare back into the city. He's far better off just staying in Manhattan. So Charles J is probably still better off with a black car.

One of my favorite lines from A Christmas Story:

"My father was an artist who worked in profanities the way other artists work in pastels and clay".

My father was a longshoreman before he enlisted in the army.  According to legand, by the time he shipped out, the sailors on the transport were reduced to "oh, my!" in response to his turn of curse.  Even after a stroke and some serious aphasia, the swearing comes out clear as a bell.

Wish I could have been there to hear your dad fire up.

Brooklyn born and bred...still live in the area.

I agree that the dem machine there is loony, and strong. A perfect example also of how things already started changing a while back is Guiliani. Of course, I think EVERYONE was ready to toss Dinkens.

This transit strike is a joke, I have very liberal friends who live there and think this is idiotic. It reminds me of the airline strike a few years back right before Thanksgiving. Way to build citizen support!

There is still time in which my soul may be saved, but not much.

The Village Voice is waaaaaaaaaaaay superior to the Daily Kos.

VV has some good ideas from time to time.

To be honest, I was comparing them in terms of their value as unintentional humor and (when necessary) as TP. The Voice still beats dKos because you can carry it around. The New York Review of Books is a lot of fun too.

One of the more astounding scenes was seeing two prominent NYC Dem politicos at the pre-strike union rally. Saying that they support the union. Congressman Anthony Weiner (of Brooklyn) and City Controller Bill Thompson. Both are looking to run for the Dem nomination for Mayor in 4 years.  Their opponents will no doubt bring out the photos and tapes of this dumb appearance.  In fact the strike was so unpopular, I would not be surprised to see a Republican-Independant try to make a run for for Weiner's seat in 2006.  

He has a slavish puff piece in the latest washington monthly.

My favorite quote: "I don't care about policy."