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to wait until the actual fact of his passing before posting this entry?

or at least delete it until there is confirmation?

The WaPo link says "Pope nears death" and CNN says "Pope still clinging to life" so I think that modicum demands that you hold off until there is a final, official announcement, from the Vatican. This isnt a newsroom report of election night returns, its something more dignified, so let the process play itself out before rushing ahead with the scoop.  Please.

Until it had been announced on the news.

There were giants in the earth in those days....mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

....we would not do this unless we were 100% sure he has already passed.

The Lord of hosts will prepare a great feast for all peoples on this mountain, a banquet of aged wine and choice marrow.

And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples, the veil which is stretched over all nations.

And death will be swallowed up in victory.

And the Lord will wipe away the tears from all faces, and He will remove the reproach of His people from the earth, for the Lord has spoken.

And it will be said in that day:

Behold, this is Our God, for whom we have waited that He might save us. Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation.

Isaiah 25

is not served by treating death as a real-time media event.

We've been thinking, talking, and working through a tribute to the man for a long time. If you'd like to question the propriety of it, I'd highly encourage you to relax and save it for tomorrow.

I have more to say about John Paul II in another post, but speaking as a Pole, and someone who was raised a Catholic, and finally as a conservative who has also seen and lived the other side, I would also like to direct readers, left and right, to the work of Leszek Kolakowski, another profoundly reflective and influential man (who also, incidentally, had a very good and deep sense of humor -- only serious people can laugh.)  He was the first recipient of the inaugural Kluge Prize for lifetime achievement in the Humanities and Social Sciences, awarded by the Library of Congress.

played a no small part in the liberation of many millions from the crumbling Soviet empire.  He stood up and was counted when it was mortal jeopardy to do so.  'Old School' in all the right ways.  God Speed, good man.  Until then.

Wait -- I'm not sorry at all.

Tread carefully.

to presumption.

It is a beautiful tribute. Augustine's quotations especially.

In memory of John Paul II.

In memory of John Paul II.

....amply addressed at this point.

I guess I understand your caution. But this seems a very respectful and heartfelt elegy to me. I cannot see a great deal of harm in remembering the life he led, as he leaves this world.  

Fox news originally said he had died, and based on that I posted this on my blog.

It now appears his brain and heart are still functioning, so I have updated my post, and will update it again when he finally passes.

"Vatican denies news reports that Pope John Paul II has died." And the other stations also seem to be reporting that he's unconcious and alive.

(For the record, I've written & shown others eulogies in anticipation of death and I don't really have any problem with others doing so....these things happen. But I thought you'd like to know.

I know you don't like it, but the N.Y. Times website is generally more scrupulous than most TV stations about confirming and double-confirming things before running them.)

Yes, there are conflicting reports.  I think this is the right course to take given what we know.  We all expect official word shortly.

....Vatican kabuki going on right now.  We're still certain he has passed, based upon public and non-public sources.

Not saying this in jest, but: if we're nonetheless wrong, we won't be for long.

Regardless of one's religious affiliation, this is a sad day. When Margaret Thatcher passes away, it will truly be the end of an era of giants who changed the world.

You all should have waited.

"No man lived more fully."

A perfect epitaph for Wojtyla.  Well said, Thomas, this was a lovely and fitting eulogy.

The man had the heart of a lion, tempered by the kindness, gentleness, and compassion of his faith.

Cheers -

25.02.

First, absorbing the loss of a Holy Father as intelligent, committed, moral, and courageous as John Paul II.

And second, finding a replacement who can approach his measure.

I hope it doesn't seem crass to discuss successors in a thread in tribute to Wojtyla.  I have profound respect for him as a man, as an enemy of totalitarianism twice over, and as a cynosure of faith.  But I can't help but be overwhelmed by the implications of a potential selection of Francis Cardinal Arinze.

....for the accession of Arinze.

I think that he would be a marvelous selection.  For all the right reasons.

Although as a 33 year old, there have been three popes in my lifetime, I was just starting the 1st grade when John Paul II was elected, so he's the only one I remember.  Mere words seem somehow inadequate to describe how much this man meant not only to the church he has led for so long, but to the world entire.

As the Holy Father prepares to pass from this world to the next in the arms of our Lord, I am reminded of two lines from my favorite hymn, Be Not Afraid.

....I go before you always

Come, follow me, and I will give you rest.

Requiescat in Pace, John Paul II.  I can think of few who have earned it more.

..as to why we are posting as if he has died already, but I see that people have been chastised for questioning.

In that case, God bless.

The sentiment is welcome and the tribute is wonderful, but it could have waited until the Vatican announced John Paul's passing.

Nevertheless, Rest In Peace.

The Pope is almost certainly dying, but not dead yet.  My heart and prayers go out to him, but we should still pray for his recovery, no?  I write at 6:04 PM.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7263878/?GT1=6428

He's been in rotten health for so long, he's on the border, and it's just a matter of time.   My prayer at this point is that God just brings him home.  But I'd not argue against praying for his recovery too.

A well written tribute to His Holiness, well done Thomas.

To get this post off the top of the page.  I know that there are others who will disagree, but this is really supposed to be a political website, not a religious one, and this post has been front and center all day long.

I'm really beginning to worry that I haven't seen a single post here on Redstate that ever cared about the death of a Muslim or a Jew of similar stature to the Pope in this way.  

I am probably in the minority here, but I think its time to move this post down.

well, not singlehandedly. He had some help by a guy named Ronald Reagan, but we shouldn't underestimate the importance of the Pope from behind the Iron Curtain. I never beleived it was a coincidence that a Pole was elected Pope in the late '70s. I think that was a clear sign of divine intervention.

a Jew of similar stature to the Pope, given that Judaism is a far more decentralized religion in structure?  There's no analogous "chief rabbi" position out there.  A similar point could be made for most other Christian denominations.

A wonderful elegy. Thanks. The Holy Father is one of only a handful of people outside my family who I am certain  has made my world a dramatically better place. He is resting in the hollow of God's hand.

As for the typically rude here, pipe down miniscule people, a giant has left us.

There's the media favorite, Billy Graham. For the rest of us there is James Dobson.

. . .of this post is that John Paul II transcended his role as the head of the Catholic Church, and was a genuine giant of the 20th Century.  There have been Popes who were scoundrels, fools, and--in a few cases--men who were willing to stand mute in the face of genocide; fortunately, for the last twenty-seven years, the world has been fortunate enough to see the Vatican in the capable hands of a genuine hero for freedom.  Even as an agnostic who disagrees with much of Catholic doctrine, I cannot help but feel deep respect for his legacy, and hope that his successor proves worthy.

I leave the uncalled-for and baseless crack about Pius XII to the side.

As far as "stature" goes Billy Graham is heads and shoulders above anyone in the past 60 years (in respect, scope, tenure, and results).  A generation of Presidents (Bush II especially) and millions of saved souls (including my mom's) speak for themselves.  He is the heir to the evangelism of D.L. Moody, and has been leading revivals for over fify years.  He is, however, in declining health and others are stepping up to the plate (See the Dobson story).




If the question were "Who is the Pope for the 'Religious Right'?" (which I would think would be an tangential and slightly inapproriate question, and I hate that term anyway), then James Dobson may be the choice but he would have some competition with Robertson, Falwell et al.  




See the story from being awarded the Congressional Gold Medal, Time's piece on Graham, and (for good measure) Graham's post-9/11 speech.

As an employee of Priests for Life, thanks to those who have contributed.

Oh the irony. Just two days after the United States killed a woman by depriving her of food and water, a man who taught us all the value of the human person, no matter how frail the condition, will soon pass on. The lives of Pope John Paul II and Terri Schiavo may seem to have little in common, but the two have taught us far more than either one could have about the human condition. Both showed through their lives and deaths the true dignity of the human person. The Pope, however, is mourned because of his position, while many would sooner forget Terri because she lacked one. In his final years, the Pope struggled with the most basic of tasks. Parkinson's disease and age took a heavy toll. While still relatively energetic, he was physically incapable of doing as much as he once did. With all of his accomplishments as Pope, it was the man, Karol Józef Wojtyla, carrying the Cross of his diseases, who demonstrated the true value of the human person. Hopefully his death will awaken a nation that failed to recognize that dignity in Terri Schiavo.

May the enjoy each other's company in their new home.

His stature stems not just from being the leader of a billion and a half Catholics, but because of his contributions to the world over the last quarter century. Simply, there is no one of equivalent stature the world over, of any faith.

I've been working on a Sharansky tribute, the necessity of which will unfortunately manifest itself in time as it does for all mortals.

I think it was put up early based on an incorrect media report from Fox News.

I agree that it seems out of place at the moment.  The Pope may live for many more days yet.  The tribute should have been quietly removed until the appropriate time.  Many people, myself included, do not feel comfortable speaking of the not-yet-dead as if they were dead.

James Dobson?  He's a political hack, not a religious leader.

A lovely epitaph, Mark.  Eloquently said.

Cheers -

... 24 hours after you, Trevino, posted this gives me no faith in trusting your sources in the future..

... I find your post a bit silly.  I admire this Pope like no other man, Jewish or not.  I've been sitting in front of the TV for days now and I have been talking with Christian friends about his final lesson for weeks.  

We live in a world where there are a lot of false faiths, a world where men use faith as a political weapon, a world where men use faith as an excuse.  But this man was honest in his faithfulness, you could see it on his face, you new it was REAL.  That is something to admire.  

This is, of course, not to mention what he did politically - to end communism, to bring Jews and Christians closer together, to teach us of a culture of life, etc.

As well please do not forget that JPII's G-d is the same as mine.  Christians study the Old Testament, too.  I have always believed that just because Christians pray differently than I do doesnt mean they are all that different and it doesnt mean that their teachings about how to live a faithful life do not apply to us as well.

JPII is a man to admire and a man to mourn, regardless of your own religion.

leftlake

the eloquence of those who have already written.

I can only express a profound sense of loss and sorrow at the passing of a giant among men and a saint among Christians.  If, as I write, John Paul II has not yet passed on to that life of blessedness with God, it appears that he soon will - and he will hear the words that we all long to hear: well done, thou good and faithful servant.

Memory eternal.

He's not exactly a leader for conservative Republicans.  As opposed to Dobson.

I had no idea.

Donated for the Victims of Communism fund.

Despite what many of you may encounter on liberal blogs, let me say, as a liberal, that I greatly admired this Pope. That's not to say I agreed with him on every issue, but his life and his deeds were noble. He redefined what a spiritual leader is capable of doing on the international stage and was, as one conservative put it, always true to his faith.

I have no doubt he'll go down in history as one of the greatest, most beloved Popes ever and deservedly so.

If you can find it in yourself to look charitably on the dissenting voices to such sentiments, I think that would serve as a very fitting tribute to Karol Wojtyla.

it's like trying to evaluate Jefferson or Madison or Lincoln or FDR, isn't it? They all did some things and said some things that I--disagree isn't nearly a strong enough word. But no one is infallible, and it is incredibly common for powerful men to harm by those less powerful, by what they do or don't do; almost universal in fact. What's very rare is the integrity and inspiration and I lack the words to describe the quality.

I'm not as even tempered or generous as you; if I were directly on the other side of it I might not see it that way.

Lech Walesa says that Communism would not have fallen without him, or at least would have fallen much later and more violently. He states this not like a flowery, sentimental eulogy but as a cold clear statement of fact from someone who would know. Walesa is Polish and Catholic, but Vaclav Havel is neither; I don't think he's even Christian and he may even be an atheist, but he agrees, and much of his writings about living in the truth seem to have been inspired by John Paul II.

I hope that his successor fulfills the needs of the world and the church in 2005 as well as John Paul II did in 1978. Hard to imagine someone else in that role; he's literally been the pope my entire life.

The charismatic pontiff, who led the world's 1 billion Catholics for 26 years, died at 9:37 p.m. Saturday (2:37 p.m. ET) in his private apartment, the Vatican said. He was 84.

is not a political figure. Though he has been an intimate of many of our leaders (including the most sin-challenged ones like Clinton and Nixon) he has played no favorites and advanced no agendas apart from the agenda of the Gospel, for all peoples.

The Pope, I feel, understood what the USA was about, moreso than her home grown "progressive intelligensia". Consider this item.........

"I am happy to take note of your words confirming the importance that your government attaches, in its relations with countries around the world, to the promotion of human rights and particularly to the fundamental human right of religious freedom, which is the guarantee of every other human right. Respect for religious conviction played no small part in the birth and early development of the United States. Thus John Dickinson, Chairman of the Committee for the Declaration of Independence, said in 1776: "Our liberties do not come from charters; for these are only the declaration of preexisting rights. They do not depend on parchments or seals; but come from the King of Kings and the Lord of all the earth." Indeed it may be asked whether the American democratic experiment would have been possible, or how well it will succeed in the future, without a deeply rooted vision of divine providence over the individual and over the fate of nations." from: http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9804/articles/documentation.html

God bless you John Paul II. Your work is done and you are now with our Lord God.

I'll post your obituary today.  You tell me whether it is proper for me to do so or not, OK?

I'd like it to read, insofar as true:

A good Christian; a good son; a good brother; a good friend; a good man; a good husband; a good father; a good lawyer.

Doesn't bug me, really. I used to get death threats. Even having a New York Times style obit utterly fails to unnerve me.

I was hoping you wouldn't take my comment poorly.  You did a great job.

BTW - I wouldn't have said anything less than what you wrote.  Take care.

to ignore foxnews - always.

Should've been obvious to take down once we knew he was still alive - I think I saw this up on Friday when he died Saturday.

And I heartily agree.

Cheers.

the same with Terri Shiavo

wants to in heaven?

Where do all the child molesting religious types go?

Is there a special place in hell for catholic clergy?

Anyone here have a special friendship with a catholic clergy member?

Have a fun time elsewhere.  Begone.