Redstate

you rock.  I'm glad to read that I'm not the only one to have entertained that thought during the past week of utter nonsense.

while he was at it.

If I wanted crackpot theories, I'd check out what Rush's spin is on the topic (and boy does he have them, e.g. Wilson is a Democratic double agent trying to bring down the administration, despite having worked loyally for Bush pere for years).

This is a real disappointment from Redstate.org.

If I wanted crackpot theories, I'd check out what Rush's spin is on the topic (and boy does he have them, e.g. Wilson is a Democratic double agent trying to bring down the administration, despite having worked loyally for Bush pere for years).

Except that Wilson was a Kerry advisor since May of 03.

The fact that he worked under Bush 41 doesn't mean that he's not a vicious partisan working against Bush 43...

may be pretty well-adjusted, as Cliff May @ NRO seems to have the same take.  Either that or May is hacking Continetti's idea - don't know.  Either way, May's article is a rather interesting read with a not entirely implausible scenerio.

Still, I'm inclined to agree with my homie on this one - time to give this all a rest until Fitz is done with his work.

Cheers.

... maybe Plame outed herself.

Plame was doing WMD analysis at the CIA.  Judith Miller was writing about WMD for the NY Times.  It seems quite possible that their paths have crossed; maybe Judith Miller called the CIA to ask about a story she was writing and ended up talking to Plame.  Or maybe Plame leaked to Miller at some point; think "a senior CIA analyst, speaking on condition of anonymity, disputed the administration's account".

If that was the case, it would explain how Plame became well known among the press corps; journalists talk, especially among themselves.

It would also answer the burning question: "Who is the source that Judith Miller went to jail to protect?"

administration, and knowing how that had tremendously compromised national security (i.e. WMD intelligence), you can bet your butt that I would be supporting their opponent.

He was still supported by Bush seniour throughout this, who expressed his condolences in a long, handwritten letter.

Get a load of this:

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=6677

Cheney, BOLTON!, AIPAC!

I found no mention of the masons or roswell - maybe they're in part II.

that I couldn't even wade in a quarter of the way.  Steaming. Pile of. Dog Crap.

Link to the CNN transcripts with Joe Wilson.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/14/wbr.01.html

according to Wilson:

The reason the Masons and Roswell were not mentioned is because the Knights Templar are running the whole show.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

As to the link, I'm with my esteemed colleague Maximos.  Vile.

Plame is the real logical source for the original leak.  She wasn't exactly a power player in DC (or the CIA itself, for that matter), but a casual "job name drop" at a party would certainly give her a bit more credibility to the regular folks.

"My husband should be sent to Niger, and I say this as a CIA WMD expert" is the sort of thing that would get people's attention around the cocktail table.

Think about it: before this happened, would anyone care about who Plame was, or even be able to dig up who she was married to without some effort?  

Why would anyone in the White House think that revealing Plame's name and job would "discredit" Wilson, except to show that he had CIA connections he hadn't mentioned?

Because it was worth ruining her career and breaking the law -- if she could just give reporters the means to undermine her husband's story?

How could I have forgotten them? (Head slap)

Wilson works for Kerry May '03

Leak of Plame's employment July '03.

So in addition to be Mr. Honest, Wilson also also apparantly psychic.

granted we are all still in the world of speculation, but that actually doesn't sound too tinfoilhatish, and lord knows we have gone through a ton of Reynold's wrap the last few days.

she outed herself at other times and occassions.  A drop here or there to give herself some community standing, also, she may have been an anonymous source to journalists on other WMD stories (keeping in mind that at that time, WMD was a huge topic in the media) so that it is known in beltway media circles that she works for the CIA.

Now comes her husband shopping his story to at least two journalists, maybe more.

The journalists know from name dropping, and common sources that Wilson's wife works for the CIA, and they start to pull threads digging into Wilson's story.

It doesn't take much for a reporter to call a CIA contact and get other details (like maybe the fact that Plame recommended her husband for the job).

The story moves around, they reporters working it call the White House for comment, and the story ends up being repeated back to other journalists working the story.  A sort of little circle at work, but in reality the media and the Wilson's outed themselves-unintentionally, but did it themselves all the same.

admin people act as anonymous sources all the time.  During that time and even now the CIA and State were leaking like sieves to the press.

It doesn't take a huge stretch to realize that if Wilson was sharing on one aspect, that Plame may have been sharing for things on other WMD stories.

As long as the journalists didn't reveal their sources, Plame's job was likely safe.

My theory is that she was a CIA source for Judith Miller, and that the rest of the press corps (including Novak) learned of Plame through Judith Miller.  

So under this theory there was never any malicious outing by the WH; Rove wasn't telling Novak and Cooper anything they didn't already know about Plame.

As for the "ruining her career and breaking the law", Plame wouldn't necessarily have done either by talking to Miller, assuming she did.  It depends on known and unknown unknowns, such as whether Plame's last overseas assignment was in 1997, if Plame did in fact talk to Miller, when such a conversation would have taken place, if the CIA sent Miller to Plame, whether the conversation was authorized by Plame's superiors, and whatnot.

are the crux of it, and would constitute a crime if done by someone who knew she was undercover-- even if he/she was only verifying what the reporter had heard elsewhere.  You can't tell someone "Wilson's wife authorized the trip" without outing her in a technical sense-- even if the reporter suspected as much.

come from then?  Presumably in order to get out that information you would have to identify Plame in some way, and presumably Plame's recommendation of her husband is not something she would want to spread to reporters.

Suspiciously, all of this information is gotten quite easily from the Senate report (which Rove surely had access to).  It seems like an incredible stretch to invent a twisted complex game of telephone, that requires people to be almost willfully ignorant and act in their own detriment.

it would have to have been leaked by someone who knew she was undercover and they would have to have gained that knowledge by virtue of classified information they had access to.

So, for instance, in the middle of a nasty divorce Wilson could have outed his own wife as a CIA agent and there would have been no crime.

This has got to be one of the dumbest theories yet.  CIA Agents do not drop hints of who they are and they do not out themselves.  Period.  They aren't about to risk losing their jobs or putting their lives as well as their peer & confidants lives at risk.  Hell, next we'll hear that aliens outted her.  I'll tell you who outted her:  Karl Rove.  And if Novak already knew that Plame was a CIA agent why did he write the story outting her six days AFTER talking to Rove?  If he already had that information, why wouldn't he have written it in May after Wilson went on record???  Please, do come up with more of your idiotic theories, it's quite entertaining and definintely gives you the appearance of a lunatic.

Maybe Wilson jumped ship because he was frustrated with the intelligence he worked so hard on being blatantly ignored because it contradicted what Bush and Cheney wanted to do?

You could disagree with the correctness of him doing that.  But clearly he's no Ted Kennedy, the guy gave to both campaigns in 2000 and got along great with Bush Sr.  He was clearly a moderate, maybe slightly left of center before the run-up to the Iraq war, which he apparently strongly disagreed with.  As is his prerogative (I supported it).

The point of this whole thing is that Rove, as someone with highly priveleged clearance, leaked information that was at the least HIGHLY PROBABLY going to lead to a CIA employee's name being published.  

This means he made, at the very least, a conscious decision NOT to check with CIA to see if she was covert.  

Basically Rove perhaps accidentally, but definitely recklessly ruined the cover of anybody who's been seen with Plame oversees.

is how it works.

Reporters were chasing the Wilson story-a CIA source may have mentioned the memo (course that is back to my belief that the primary source is a CIA one not a WH one).

The memo may have come from Novak or Miller or somebody else calling the CIA and asking about Plame working there, and they may have gotten the memo story.

There is nothing that says the knowledge of Plames job and the knowledge of the memo occurred at the same time and same place.

But I do think who leaked the memo to either the leaker (if we are going with a Rove leak still) or to a reporter is a good question.

when they act as anonymous sources for stories written by reporters.

Shoot the CIA has leaked like a sieve with stories using anonymous sources.

Now publically said CIA agents aren't known, but they certainly are known to their contacts in the media that use them as sources.

Shoot how do you think the NYTimes broke the story where they exposed the other CIA business covers?  They got their info from anonymous CIA sources.  The reporters who worked that story sure enough knew who their sources were.

...that the investigation is looking at Ari Fleischer...

Talking off the record to a reporter anonymously is not outting yourself.  Going to parties and dropping hints and all the other idiotic ideas that were presented is ridiculous.  CIA agents don't do that.  There's a difference.  And I guarantee if we find out who Judith Miller is protecting, it's someone in the Administration.  Valerie Plame did not out herself.  She would have nothing to gain and only to lose by doing so.  Karl Rove admitted to outting her, perhaps not using her name, but definintely insinuating as to who she was.  That's a fact.  Come, join me in reality, it's quite an eye opening place to be.

in the CIA that didn't like the way Plame and other elements within the intelligence community were playing games with admistration policy post 9/11?

The theory is that Judith Miller knew of Plame through her workand that Judith Miller talked to other journalists about Plame, and before long, it was common knowledge among the press corps, including Novak.

This kind of stuff happens all the time inside the Beltway; it is a small world.

If he didn't know she was undercover then shame on him.  This guy looks at classified info every day.  He's clearly a competent person.  If he didn't know, then he made a conscious decision NOT to bother checking with the CIA if it was ok to talk about this particular agent.

your smoking, effervescing remains are on The Pile™.

I was reading some posts at http://www.ilovekarlrove.com/ and they seem to think Karl is actually a liberal that forces sex on random women. I guess he's like Clinton without the lady charm. Or maybe his standards are just higher. Call it a far shot, but maybe Karl learned of Plame's identity while having sex with her! Would she be the one going to the slammer then? Now that would be a trap Ackbar would be proud of. But I personally believe those bloggers attacks on his manhood were completely uncalled for and shouldn't be included in the discussion. It has nothing to do with the subject at hand!!!!!

Please, can we send this one to the pile?  

Came over when 'The Conservative Voice' turned off 'comments'. I'm looking for a new home and as a 'newbie' I've just been watching and trying to get the feel of the site. This is my first comment.

I'm suprised and a bit put off by what seems to be 'joy' in the remarks of those who sent trolls to "The Pile".

Guess I'd better find someplace else to play.

Please read my "User Info" and then toss my account and 'my ashes' on "The Pile" and I'll keep looking.

Regards,

SteveK

There is plenty of evidence Plame and Wilson - and possibly three other cohort CIA employees - talked to the press.

But forget about Plame's identity being the classified information leaked!!

http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/331

It hasn't been for some time.

Kowalski has touched on this, and there is an early and well-documented thread on FR about this... the French connection.

Wilson travels through Paris, and when in Niger stays at the Sofitel. Maybe that's the only hotel in Niger, but for sure it is the hotel favored by French travelers. A French company also runs the uranium business in Niger.

If I have the timeline right, a few months after Wilson gets back, we get the forged memo via the Italians, and we figure out that it's forged. But the French are still trying to pass it to us and the Brits as legitimate stuff. So the French are up to no good here, and we know it. We know it because we figured out it's a forgery... but the French don't know that. Until Wilson blabs it out, "the dates were wrong and the signatures were wrong." By saying this, Wilson likely screwed up some game the spooks were playing with the French as we tried to figure out why the French were trying to hose us with this forged document.

Didn't know you posted here!

That was the other source I recalled.  Should have known it was here at Redstate.  Thanks, I will add that link in.