The DNC Was Never Very Close to the Fools at MyDD
By Leon H Wolf Posted in Democrats — Comments (33) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Hey Matt Stoller,
Hey, we totally understand the whole inferiority complex you've got going on. After all, if our party had laid down and died on the replacement of Sandra Day O'Connor, failed to get any of the candidates we endorsed elected and then kicked our poster boy to the curb in public fashion, we might be prone to saying irrational things that were completely unsupported by the facts, too. We might even get so jealous of an outfit like RedState, which has had remarkable success getting their candidates elected and getting their party's attention that we'd be prone to project our insecurities on others by claiming that their national party was "distancing itself from them", too.
Personally, I'm having a hard time determining which claim is more ludicrous, the charge that RedState is racist, or the contention that the GOP (or GOP.com) is taking affirmative steps to distance itself from us.
I'm tempted, at first blush, to say that it's the GOP.com-distancing-itself-from-RedState claim. After all, the GOP blogroll, which you can view this minute, has 20 blogs. We're one of them. That's a rather odd way for GOP.com to "distance itself" from us, wouldn't you think? Then there's also the fact that Stoller's post includes absolutely zero evidence at all that even implies that the GOP or GOP.com is distancing itself from us. Instead, Stoller uses his divining stick to find some evidence in this comment by Mike Turk, which does not even mention RedState, or have anything to do with the relationship between RedState and GOP.com, to make this determination. Not surprisingly, Mike Turk himself beat Stoller about the head with a rhetorical stick of his own for this... how shall we say, interesting interpretation of his comment.
Stoller has responded today with this beautiful gem, explaining why his point was valid after all:
More below...
UPDATE [02-15-00 11:41:00 EST by Leon H]: New and updated nobody here but us racists material below the fold!
Now, there are a couple of other points to note. One, I was making a structural argument about the GOP.com and Redstate. The RNC cannot afford to embrace their netroots as an audience because of the increasingly extreme and racist nature of their base.
Again, you go to GOP.com, and there we are. Fifth one on the list, actually. But I'm tired of going on about the silliness of Matt's contention - that the GOP cannot do what they are doing, because the real doozy here is how Matt has determined that we're all a bunch of racists:
For instance, it's not just James Dobson embarrassing Republicans anymore; Senator Jeff Sessions, Senator Sam Brownback, and Senate candidate Michael Steele have all compared stem cell research to the holocaust.
I shouldn't have to point out to someone who purportedly has some level of education that racism has a specific meaning, and that meaning is not, "someone saying something that I disagree with politically," or even, "someone engaging in political hyperbole." It is, ipso facto, the belief that one race is inherently inferior to others.
Now, try to follow with me the logical leap that Stoller has made. You'll have to suspend everything you've ever learned about logic or the English language, but such are the necessary sacrifices for one who wishes to understand what frontpagers at MyDD are saying. Blanton says that a certain funeral (of a woman who happened to be black) was a political spectacle, and some Senators liken stem cell research to the holocaust, and Matt Stoller says that these things are evidence of racism. He has pointed to nothing in the comments of any of those individuals which would lead any reasonable person to conclude that they thought black/Jewish people were inferior, mind you. Their sole offense was mentioning certain individuals in the context of making a political point, and these individuals were black/Jewish. Thus, in Stoller's mind, he has established a prima facie case of racism against Blanton, RedState, and indeed, "The entire Republican punditry." By this logic, I suppose that anyone who mentions anyone of a different race, or takes notice that there are people in this world who are of different races, is racist. Except for Steve Gilliard. He could never, as a matter of law, say anything that is racist. Don't say I didn't warn you how painful it would be to follow.
Here, Matt, watch me be racist, too: "I think abortion places a moral stain on this country, just like slavery did in the 18th and 19th centuries." You see? I've made a political point through historical analogy, and some of the people referenced in my analogy were not white. Clearly, I have unwittingly been caught in the undertow of the phenomenally racist grain of RedState. I can only hope that the national GOP continues to shun me and the rest of my RedState colleagues. It's worked out pretty well so far.
* * * BEGIN UPDATE * * *
In calling this post an apologia for racism, Stoller writes:
Still, the nub of my argument, which remains unaddressed, is that the official Republican Party organization cannot afford to embrace its netroots because a substantial component of their base responds to racism and extremist sentiments.
Well, nobody's responded to your point because, as I've pointed out, it's demonstrably false. Further, it's pretty clear you pulled it right out of your backside.
Now, if you want to call us extremist, some of us don't even care. You tar all of us as racist, we're going to expose you for the intellectually dishonest charlatan that you are. Here's another example:
First of all, I mentioned racism and extremism. The holocaust point was meant to suggest the extremism bit, and some Republican bloggers agree with me on that. I didn't claim anti-semitism, though it would be convenient for Leon Wolf if I had.
Well, Matt, perhaps I got that impression from your ambiguous usage of the English language. I won't cast aspersions on whether it was deliberate or not, but here's what you said:
The RNC cannot afford to embrace their netroots as an audience because of the increasingly extreme and racist nature of their base. It's not Redstate specifically, it is, as Glenn Greenwald notes, their entire pundit class. Actually, it goes beyond that, to their leadership. For instance, it's not just James Dobson embarrassing Republicans anymore; Senator Jeff Sessions, Senator Sam Brownback, and Senate candidate Michael Steele have all compared stem cell research to the holocaust.
But the right-wing blogosphere is where racist and extreme sentiment is most obvious and trackable, it is a veritable steady diet of the stuff.
Gee. You don't really take much care to distinguish between whether the comparison is extremist or racist. One might even conclude that you think it's both. Whatever. You claim you didn't mean it that way, I'll take your word for it - I'm sure you'll clear things up back at MyDD about this, as well.
But here's what I really want to respond to, which is whether Blanton's post, in its entirety, was racist. Here's the collection of your material on why it was racist:
Why is it that those who participate in these funerals feel compelled to turn a solemn, religious event into a Def Comedy Jam spectacle of anti-Republican, anti-conservative boilerplate "known facts" and demands for handouts?Wow, that's pretty racially charged language. But maybe he could have written that about any funeral.
Indeed. Which is why he started his post by mentioning the Wellstone funeral.
What about this, though?
I also think I have a clearer understanding of why the culture of so many black Americans in this country is below what it should be and is capable of being.
The prominent black spiritual leaders, like Joseph Lowery, are more interested in subsidization from The Man than salvation from the Lord.
Did he write this, as Leon suggests, about the funeral of a women who 'happened' to be black? Could this have been written about the funeral of, say, Paul Wellstone? Of course not. King's race is very much part of Blanton's post, and to suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest (as is his claim that I suggested Redstate was antisemitic, which I did not).
Again, apparently you missed the part where Blanton did call the Wellstone funeral a similarly shameful spectacle, but we'll let that pass for the moment. Keeping in mind that Blanton said nothing whatsoever about the black race, or its members as a whole - but rather the attendees of one funeral, in the United States, primarily attended by people of a given political ideology, the most you could say about Blanton's post was that he was casting aspersions on American black liberals. Now, it so happens that most black Americans are liberal. However, it most decidedly does not follow that attacking liberalism, as practiced by Lowery, et al is an attack on the black race as a whole.
But let's take this just a step farther, shall we? Since when did the remark, "the culture of [group X] in this country is below what it should be and is capable of being," indicate any hostility towards that culture whatsoever? For instance, if I say, "The divorce rate among Christians is unacceptably high in this country, compared to what it should be and is capable of being" (which is, by the way, something I believe), am I anti-Christian?
Furthermore, let's break it down to a racial level. What if I said that the abortion rate in this country for black America is shockingly high, or that an illegitimacy rate of almost 70% is a serious problem, and that the black community stood to become much stronger if these trends reversed, would that be racist? If Jesse Jackson has already said it, is it still racist?
While we're reducing this argument to its absurd conclusion, an interested person could casually browse RedState over the past couple of weeks and find Paul J Cella and I going on and on and on about how non-Muslim Western Europe is basically a defeated and lifeless culture that is doomed to destruction - are we therefore racist against white people? I'll tell you, that makes exactly as much sense as calling Blanton (and, what the heck, everybody at RedState, and the whole conservative punditocracy) a racist on the basis of some observations about one political subset of the black population in one country on the planet. Now, you might say that Blanton was wrong and misguided, and that perhaps he was overgeneralizing (kind of like calling everyone associated with RedState racist), you may even accuse him of failing to understand the customs commonly associated with "black" funerals, but you've still shown absolutely zero, zip, zilch evidence that either he or anyone else at this site views black people as ipso facto inferior on the basis of the color of their skin.
So, how about it, Matt? If you think Blanton's comments were unfair generalizations, can you recognize the same failing in your own? If you hold all of us here personally responsible for every comment that isn't disowned on the front page, do you take credit for this? I keep hearing you're a nice guy, but all I see so far is someone who's willing to resort to cheap and unsubstantiated smear tactics to win political points. Should your alleged congeniality cover such a character flaw?
What do YOU think?
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The DNC Was Never Very Close to the Fools at MyDD 33 Comments (0 topical, 33 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
i must be a racist because i mentioned my sisters-in-law races, as well as my wife's race.. and did so to make a point..
Clearly, there is a phenomenal grain of racism that exists at RedState. It appears we're all caught up in it.
Matt Stoller is actually a really nice guy. He and I froze our butts off and shared a few beers covering the 2004 election for MSNBC up in Secaucus, NJ.
I can't help but think that Matt is just needling us -- and painting with very broad strokes to suggest that all of Republican punditry is racist. Indeed, I think he gave away the game. I suspect he sat down at the computer, moved the chip bags off the keyboard, and said, "Hmmm, I think I'll try starting a meme today."
Now, it's true that Blanton should have probably said the funeral looked like a Democratic rally instead of the Def Comedy Jam -- Krempasky says he winced at that too. But to draw from Blanton's post that he hates black people pushes the envelope into left wing stereotyping of the right wing. You know, we say they are all communists and they say we are all racist.
Stoller might have a better track record if he had a record of taking down those on his side for throwing oreo cookies at Michael Steele, etc. But as far as I can tell, he only has this instance of opportunism.
Matt is really a bright guy, but I'm unimpressed with his arguments that Blanton, RedState, or the entire class of right wing pundits as a whole are racist. It's rather disappointing, but I'm still willing to eat bad chicken fingers and drink warm beer with him at the Secaucus Crowne Plaza, should we ever be called back to active duty by MSNBC.
This sort of McCarthyism - a deliberate and transparently baseless smear of the good name of everyone connected with this website - is quite literally the most uncivil thing a blogger or pundit can do. It's the nuclear weapon of punditry. Stoller owes us each, personally, a massive and public apology.
Sorry to inform you that ethnicity is no longer sole means to prove race - one must also have the correct political bona fides. President Clinton was, of course, the first black President and we all know that Condi and Ken are not really black.
you are almost Christ like in you willingness to associate with the dregs of society.
...if he stood every round and rescued you from a bar fight. The fact that he knows and professes to like various members of RedState does not excuse his behavior - particularly when it applies to those of us who are not so fortunate as yourself in our acquaintances.
I've registered only recently but read redstate off-and-on for a while, and haven't really noticed any particularly racist leanings here.
He's probably trying to get a rise out of you guys.
I do feel that besides its positive aspects, redstate does have a few shortcomings, but racism isn't one of them.
I'm not saying Stoller's silly remarks should not be rebutted. However... who really cares what some communist with a computer thinks? It's not like any Republicans actually take MyDD, DKos, and the other leftist ranters seriously. He's preaching to the choir on his site.
Many Democrats claim all Republicans are just inherently "racist" anyway, so this is not a particularly unique attack. Really, Stoller is a decade or so behind the times, strategically.
once when I read Def Comedy Jam and again after I realized I had been "conditioned" to wince. This was a completely logical comparison of the funeral and a comedy show. Both were/are attended by a majority black audience and both were funny and good for a laugh if you can stomach the routines. Even though the the comment was obviously not mean spirited, I still looked over my soldier and said uh-oh.
I winced the this second time because I realized I have been conditioned to walk on egg shells when discussing anything that happens to pertain to black people because I am a white Republican.
One of my guilty pleasures and one of the few times I watch TV is when I try to catch an episode of Family Guy (I know, its horrible... but sooo funny). I often miss it but catch the Boondocks instead and get bombarded by the N word relentlessly. That's just a cartoon (but people have rioted for worse, right) and may or may not be MS, but Dem and anti-republican henchmen and women can spew out such comments as "oreo", "uncle Tom", and "race traitors" with impunity. This is acceptable , but a white republican can't say Def Comedy Jam without his peers having a Pavlovian twitch and hunching of the shoulders?
Ouch.
Unacceptable.
Did the oreo-throwing really happen?
It seems plausible, but it's a serious accusation to make without any evidence.
The only racism I've seen here is from some commenters who could very well be Mobys.
But from the founders, and the leadership? Never that I recall, and I'm a hardliner on racism. Completely and utterly intolerant of it.
This is nuts.
I did see an Oreo cookie fly through the air in the direction of Mr. Steele during the event, but I did not see it hit him. ... While the thrown Oreo cookies may not have been "thick in the air like locusts" as Paul Schurick, spokesman for Governor Robert Ehrlich, has said, I feel compelled to ask those who are trying to downplay the events just how many Oreo cookies would constitute being offensive?
He makes an excellent point. Why couldn't they have made that point from the beginning instead of exaggerating the story to the point of unbelievability?
The writer of that post was female. It should be, "She makes an excellent point..."
Is Stoller a communist? I've never heard him advocate for common ownership of the means of production or express an affinity for the former Soviet Union.
Many Republicans claim all Democrats are just inherently "communist" anyway, so this is not a particularly unique attack.
I think the problem is one of definitions. To many on the left, voicing opposition to affirmative action is convincing evidence of racism. There will follow quickly an accusation that you're just like those guys in the white hoods or maybe even a Hitler-wannabe.
Here is another article in the Washington Times, the statements made by Dems in this are just as bad as the act itself.
Here is MM's take on the story that first drew my attention.
but phenomenally racist. Well we did have a very recent go around due to a poster describing someone as Chinese, I mean, how low can we go? Although I don't see too many white democrats avidly denouncing the description of Black Conservatives as Uncle Toms. But you don't find morals in a pig pen so we can't expect too much from democrats.
and Fort Ticonderoga and Saratoga ought to make us rethink Benedict Arnold's designation as the traitor who would have handed West Point to the British.
After all, without his treason, he would have been a great Americal General. Past virtues, whatever they may be, do not absolve one of present (or future) vices.
Poor Matt is denied the curative drugs he needs, "presuming a functional health care system" he says, the absence of which causes cognitive difficulties in his reading and posting. Just like a liberal, blame the system. Matt just bang your head against the wall a few times before going to bed at night, it works for Howard Dean and nobody will notice the lumps. Most liberals have them. It may even improve your appearance.
I used to think somewhat fondly of Stoller. Oh, the logic was never there, but really, there are worse things you can say of someone (like, "You're an attorney, aren't you?"). What little regard I had for him went out the window at the "racists" crack, but let's be honest, neither he nor I care.
But let's be clear on a few things here.
- MyDD would be better called MyWasteofTime. Does anyone actually care what these idiots say? Seriously? What have they done? What have they managed? I mean, I guess we owe them a hearty round of thanks for all the good work they've done for Howard Dean over the last four years -- where would we be without them? Aside from that, why should we give two tiny tenths of a damn what that group of illiterates -- arguably the least competent group of political commentators of our generation -- say about us? They figure we're all fascists, theocrats (hey Bowers: It's "theocraroots" -- if you're going to make up a word, spell the root correctly), misogynists, and God(dess) alone knows what else; why not add "racists" to the mix?
- There is something particularly absurd about getting highly exercised about a post that makes, literally, no sense. None. Not one iota. The follow-ups do not help; they simply try to apply thick wads of Mary Kay to a five-legged pig. Put differently: When my dog wakes up from a nightmare and barks at me, half-drugged with sleep, before realizing what's going on, smiling at me, and going back to sleep, I do not make it a point to argue with him. He's not rational, isn't making a run at it, and it would be a waste of time to try to reason with him at that point. The difference, here, is that Stoller is perpetually in that just-waking state.
- We are speaking about people who will defend to the death the idea -- and the proponents of the idea -- that all people of a certain race necessarily must think alike, or they are defective, bad, evil, traitors, not really members of that race, and so on. Help me out here: Why would we treat these people as anywhere above contempt?
Matt Stoller is actually a really nice guy. He and I froze our butts off and shared a few beers covering the 2004 election for MSNBC up in Secaucus, NJ.
Awww. Well that night wasn't as good for me as it was for you.
I have to say, you and Mike K. are brilliant political entrepreneurs and I learn from you every day.
I used to talk to a communist online (yes, he actually was a member of the Communist Party of New York). He was annoying to argue with, since he would intersperse obscure facts with ad hominem attacks, but one day I asked him to define racism.
He said it was a power struggle.
Nothing about, y'know, skin color or anything like that.
I do not believe that Matt is a "nice guy." Perhaps he was nice to you in person (as to not get his face punched) but anyone who would paint someone he doesn't know and a whole group with a broad brush knowing that it isn't true, is NOT NICE.
I am Miss. NICE of the blogosphere, I should know. One is not nice when they use harsh insults to just further their political agenda. I find his insults to be beyond the pale in political discourse.
Racism is the easiest insult, which is why they use it so much. I find it laugable that Matt would use the holocaust reference as an example since the left routinely use Nazi references to describe George Bush.
Matt should be ashamed of himself, but he won't be, because only nice people are ashamed when they say something hurtful and untrue.
is how did it get this way. You could mull over that for a few weeks.
..."Some of ny best friends are racist Republicans" defense.
It is amazing at how quickly Mr. Stoller is to jump at the word racism. It has gotten to the point where you cant even MENTION a persons race. Then again, when losing an argument it is the democrats fallback position and a clear sign as to how threatened they are by the success of RS.
I find it ironic that he has this exerpted out of Blanton's post:
I also think I have a clearer understanding of why the culture of so many black Americans in this country is below what it should be and is capable of being.
If anything it shows his respect and admiration for black Americans. By Stollers standards I guess Bill Cosby and Walter Williams are also racists. I would actually love to see him debate Walter Williams. It would be cool.
that I, a white male conservative republican voter, am married to an asian woman, who also happens to be a conservative voter and registered republican? what if i also mention that i have 1 white sister-in-law, 3 asian sisters-in-law, and 1 black/hispanic sister-in-law (she's half black, half hispanic) who are all conservative also?